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Bootscooter View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

I asked the same thing to a friend of mine who tried to get me to come and play golf once... his answer, because in Golf you are really only ever playing yourself. The continuous improvement is the sport and why it is so addictive for many. That kind of makes sense... it's got to have something going for it, 'cos it looks dull as sh*t to me.

That makes a certain amout of sense to me, but you therefore  (see what I did there...." FORE!!!") couldn't/should give out trophies on the back of it, except possibly for "Most Improved". 
 
Logically, this makes it a totally impractical prospect for dinghy racers, as we all "Sail To Win" (or enjoy trying").
 
Plaid wetsuits would never work either.


Edited by Bootscooter - 11 Jan 13 at 2:12pm
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:16pm
The class associations that 'get it right' in my opinion, spread the love already- buddy systems; gold, silver, bronze fleets etc.  

Didn't someone win a brand new kite at the Musto Worlds for 'best improver' throughout the week, whereas Sten, who won the championship, got a sh*tty very nice musto baseball cap?  (Probably an urban legend... but you get the vibe)
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:20pm
Excellent if true Clap
 
There are better ways to help newcomers and numpties than skewing the numbers to make them think they're better than they are. Most join the sport as a challenge and want to genuinely compete.  Why are Lasers so numerous again? That's right.....
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tick View Drop Down
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I cant be bothered to read anymore of this. Want to race properly? Buy a boat with a fleet and race in it. Want to club race?  Buy a boat that is fun for you and get on with it. The PY system is not that bad.......live with it.

Some of you people are either very quick typists or should have better things to do.
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Bootscooter View Drop Down
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by tick

I cant be bothered to read anymore of this. Want to race properly? Buy a boat with a fleet and race in it. Want to club race?  Buy a boat that is fun for you and get on with it. The PY system is not that bad.......live with it.

Some of you people are either very quick typists or should have better things to do.
 
Spot on.
Not very.
Yes probably. LOL
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Excellent if true Clap
 
There are better ways to help  numpties than skewing the numbers to make them think they're better than they are. 

not if they're from Kent it seems.....
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:34pm
a good example of it skewing is at our club over the last few years. The best sailors sailed phantoms, the py got nobbled down to 1000, the rest relatively speaking were crap but it couldn't be seen that the phantoms sailed away from the poor darlings, no it must be the boat, mustn't upset the others. We had one guys who was win at all costs who got one too so followed what Graeme said, but on the whole it was because thats what people enjoyed sailing. However his attitude was right in one instance that instead of pandering to the rubbish sailors by skewing the PY the club should have encouraged them to get better.

As it happens most of the phantoms have gone now, I suspect that a lot of it may have been down to time to move onto something else or that they were getting beaten by worse sailors due to the misguided efforts of some on the committee to make everyone equal.

We now have someone who knows what they are doing and the PY's are being adjusted properly, but as the only phantoms left are me and a couple of other reasonable ones it don't look like the py is going back up....now only got to moan about the bandit Solo's
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:42pm
PY works well if you all take it as a bit of a laugh and not too seriously.

As for a fair course I always try to get 2 beats, 2 reaches (1 tight 1 broad) and a run in to a course. That way one boat is not usually favoured over another.

Course content does make a surprising difference.

And as for all those who say 1 point of PY does not make a difference we had 4 in different classes separated by 1 second each a couple of weekends back. 1 point of PY for any of them would have made a difference to their finishing places,

As for the PYAG group they are doing a great job.

For those who say 'how do I get my club to change?' get on you sailing committee and raise it. This is what we did at Hunts and a couple of PYs were changed and, as a result, the racing has become far more active. In reality the PY changes made little difference to the series results but it gave people the perception that they had a chance so they would come and give it a go.

and GRF...quick PY question....2 mutually exclusive terms....
Paul
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 2:52pm
This EPS v's Laser thing... strange that the guys sailing the 2 EPs's at Whitefriars generally have little trouble seeing off the Lasers on handicap. I'd say this (if we rule out crew skill factor) has to do with sailing on an 80 acre lake not an 8 acre one. Once the puddle is tiny, there is no way that standard handicaps are going to work out, as there will be too many corners, for a start. So either get a boat that suits the water (a Streaker, Lightning or British Moth might be good), or sail to get a result on the water, or lobby to get your handicap raised. Wittering on about the Laser handicap won't do much good, especially if they are losing to, or having fair racing with, the Miracles/Streakers.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 3:26pm
I accept the close water thing and on the sea, now I can sail it I can on occasion beat the old Laser Handicap, which is course dependant on the sea, where clearly the Laser is an enitrely different animal. If the good guys sailed and entered the Laser would win the series every year, no question, I doubt even the Merlin would get a look in.

As to lobbying to get my handicap raised, I wouldn't have to with my method I'd just sail to my chosen handicap like you would on the golf course, but, my boat would have a rating not that different from the Laser, certainly not as different now as it was the day they were both made.

As I said, the handicap should be the choice of the sailor not some autonomous body that keeps getting it wrong, because they always will and shouldn't demean themselves by trying, just define and produce a list of the boat PQ's and what an average helm handicap should be and let everyone work it out for themselves.


The day might dawn when they've amassed a vast amount of data and issued what they believe to be the correct numbers, the boats could even race and all finish within a minute of each other for success on that day, but the very next day the wind would change and or the water condition and the result would be entirely different.

Edited by iGRF - 11 Jan 13 at 3:27pm
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