Quick PY Question

 

Originally posted by iGRF   There has been no construction change to a Laser, neither it's sail area, width, depth length or volume have changed, neither has the 300 so why is one moving not the other if not for the benefit of some interest group?

I don't know but perhaps the Laser drop is overdue as a result of the bandit classes.  If the idea of the PY system is to try and equalise the chances of a boat winning a race (or evening out it's chances over a series).

When a new class or lipstick boat is introduced (and I'll use a Phantom as an example, I'm not picking on them in particular) perhaps their PY should have been where it is now when it was introduced.  By giving it a slower PY it disproportionately disadvantaged boats like the Laser.  Two things can be done to equalise those two boats, lower the Phantom and/or raise the Laser PY.  It's not about the Laser getting slower over time, it's about it getting slower relative to other boats and if those boats have dodgy handicaps then boats like the Laser are unfairly penalised.

GBR940 - you ask if there is a 'standard' time for the PY system.  The PY calculation is a time-on-time system so it works for any length of race . . . within reason.  Very short races (<20 minutes) are probably going to be overly influenced by the start and the fast boats working through the slower boats - very long races (>2 hours) have a greater chance of the fastest boats sailing in different wind/tide conditions to the slowest (unless you use average lap timing). [BTW - you are not alone in thinking that the numbers only work for 60 minute races - I have heard that from some very experienced racers.]

With regard to course setting - yes it is possible to set courses that favour one boat over another.  A simple triangle with relatively broad reaches is going to give a massive advantage to high powered skiffy asymmetrics.  Similarly a course with close reaches and runs is likely to advantage the symmetric boats more.  Add a bit of tide and that can complicate matters further. 

I'm not sure there is an answer to this - certainly don't think the RYA can tell you what is a fair course at your club.  I do a fair amount of race training for beginners and intermediates at our club and anecdotally the course that seems to me to offer the fairest racing across a wide range of classes is a trapezoid - beat, tightish reach (but still kiteable - just), run and broadish reach.   Don't have any numbers to back that up - but everybody seems to get something out of that type of course.

Mark

Originally posted by iGRF   Well 1) I don't think you'll find anybody in the windsurf community that would agree with according me deity status, and 2)since you clearly are a capable chap, why don't you attempt to change it, really sort it for them, they have gotten themselves into such a muddle, in a bloody great hole and digging furiously, time comes when you need to step back, start again, it is f**ked up. Produce a new model one that works and start again.

Edited by pondmonkey - 11 Jan 13 at 10:29am

The 'classic' div1/Funboard class with centreboard and 7.5m sail (and before the clowns in control derestricted pumping) was a high popint.  There were thousands and thousands of regular racers at dozens and dozens of sailing clubs across the UK.  These craft were fast enough and could be raced alongside dinghies as just another class at most clubs and the future looked very rosy indeed .....

Then a vocal bunch in league with a few manufacturers decided to 'advance' the sport .. and part of this debacle was to abandon the classes like Div 1 (obviously you need to drop active support and kill them off otherwise the punters will not buy into 'the next best thing').   Yes lets tell the national authority it is the 'way of the future' etc .  The  derestriction of pumping also made a farce of racing at regular sailing clubs, as well as hacking off a lot of grass roots racers,  and the board 'elite' got what they wanted.  Trouble was everybody else went off to play with other toys, cos they were not encouraged any more with 'good' racing and 'good' product. ... and a few of us returned to or took up dinghy racing.

Windsurf racing ... as a sport a classic example of how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.... aided by national body and manufacturers alike.    They killed off the greatest 'feeder' classes into sail racing of any kind that possibly ever existed .... abandoned the club infrastructure that was already in place as 'now not suitable' and then  'Honey, guess what  - We've shrunk the sport '     

Now what was someone saying about the dinghy set-up 'missing the point' ?  The board decline and fall makes the banking industry look really very sane ....  

Rant over !  Mike L.

Oh No! I find myself in agreement with Graeme . Is there a cure?

sh*t - me too !! 

Mike L.