Designing a boat

So you want a foiling 29er, wouldn't that be cheaper than building your own boat?

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow Originally posted by JimC there's no evidence at the moment that trapezes/kites will actually make for a faster boat than the standard Moth platform. Yes and No Jim.... If a two person boat is your objective I think the R's would take issue with that.

Yep, I was definitely thinking singlehander. The law of diminishing returns kicks in. With a kite in breeze you'll go lower and very likely slower than a Moth (much more drag). You'll also lose a lot of time on hoists and drops. And I doubt Mothies often come off the water saying "gosh that downwind was boring, I wish I'd had a kite out there".

The foil Rs are amazing things, good luck to them, but I do wonder if they could straight line a top Moth.

But if you're genuinely interested in hull design then I suspect a foiler is probably not the way to go simply because it really seems as if the design comes down to how little hull can I get away with in order to get on the foils as quickly as possible.

Going back to the original post I think my advice is

• Sail the 29er next season and learn apparent wind sailing
• Make educated decision mid season whether you want to sail two handers or singlehanders for the next few years


• Also decide if you still want to get into the build and design side


• If two handers then get into Cherubs with a s/h boat and learn about design and build


• If singlehanders try a Moth first. Even though the Moth isn't as easy a platform for home build/design as it was pre foils you'll still learn loads from being in the class.

Edited by JimC - 22 Dec 12 at 12:11pm

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Jack Sparrow Originally posted by JimC there's no evidence at the moment that trapezes/kites will actually make for a faster boat than the standard Moth platform. Yes and No Jim.... If a two person boat is your objective I think the R's would take issue with that. Yep, I was definitely thinking singlehander. The law of diminishing returns kicks in. With a kite in breeze you'll go lower and very likely slower than a Moth (much more drag). You'll also lose a lot of time on hoists and drops. And I doubt Mothies often come off the water saying "gosh that downwind was boring, I wish I'd had a kite out there". The foil Rs are amazing things, good luck to them, but I do wonder if they could straight line a top Moth. But if you're genuinely interested in hull design then I suspect a foiler is probably not the way to go simply because it really seems as if the design comes down to how little hull can I get away with in order to get on the foils as quickly as possible. Going back to the original post I think my advice is Sail the 29er next season and learn apparent wind sailing Make educated decision mid season whether you want to sail two handers or singlehanders for the next few years Also decide if you still want to get into the build and design side If two handers then get into Cherubs with a s/h boat and learn about design and build If singlehanders try a Moth first. Even though the Moth isn't as easy a platform for home build/design as it was pre foils you'll still learn loads from being in the class.

Showing your age there with the ref to Prof Branestorm, Nessa!

The hard part about design is not so much the mechanics and physics of design, but having a well defined brief and the discipline not to venture from it. It is all too easy to start adding bells and whistles, which corrupts the original clarity of thought.

Originally posted by RS400atC Looking at foiling moths, without a kite they are mostly/often going so fast the apparent wind is too close for a kite to be useful. If it's ultimate speed you are after, then it's either foils or a sailboard. There is a lot to be said for building within a class, but equally, it sounds like you do not want to be constrained by class rules. most of which will involve minimum weight. Most of the classes could be built lighter by a keen amateur who was prepared to lose a little robustness and spend on carbon. Has anyone built a foiling singlehander with a kite? Too many controls for one pair of hands? or is foiling now developed to the point where it does not take up much time/thought/arm movement? Where are all the 600FF's and what would their PY be these days?