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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Quiz Question
    Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 9:04am
Of course, you haven't specified "under RRS only", so we have to include IRPCAS. 

So; 
overtaking
fishing under sail 
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
constrained by draught
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 9:49am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Of course, you haven't specified "under RRS only", so we have to include IRPCAS. 
So; 
overtaking
fishing under sail 
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
constrained by draught
 
I don't think there is any obligation to 'keep clear' in IRPCAS
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Rupert

When you are a kid sailing an Oppie?
 
Should have seen that one coming...
The smart answer... and the kid in the Oppie Wink
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by Brass

Isn't this a fairly trivial exercise in using the search key on the RRS?
 

Rule 12, Clear Astern

Rule 13, Tacking

Rule 19( c ) boat becoming inside overlapped at an obstruction where no room

Rule 21.1 OCS returning

Rule 21.2 taking a Penalty

Rule 21.3 sailing backwards

Rule 22:  sometimes a boat that does not 'avoid' another does not 'keep clear'

Rule 23:  sometimes a boat that 'interferes' does not 'keep clear'.

 

 


Acquiring right of way
Capsized boat
When she needs to gybe around a mark
When not sailing a proper course and the other boat is on another leg.
When the Port tacker is the pathfinder in a gate start!
While gybing in a match race.
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 7:33pm
Yep, got most of the ones on my list, except that no-one's mentioned the one I thought was the most obvious and is therefore top of my list!
 
1. When P is eligible for mark room at a downwind mark (18.2 & 18.4)
2. When P is eligible for room at an obstruction (19.2)
3. When S has just acquired right of way and P is unable to avoid her (15)
4. When S is altering course in a way which would prevent P from being able to keep clear (16.1)
5. When S is ROW but would cause damage to P not keeping clear (14)
6. When S is not racing and P is (23.1)
7. When S has the wind free and it is dark (col regs apply at night?)
8. When P is capsized, anchored, aground or rescuing (22)
9. When S is in the process of taking a penalty (21.2)
10. When S is in the process of returning to re-start after being OCS (21.1)
11. When S is sailing backwards (21.3)
12. When P is on another leg, and S is not sailing her proper course (23.2)
 
Any more?
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 8:29pm

1.    When P is eligible for mark room at a downwind mark (18.2 & 18.4)

S is required to give mark-room:  giving mark-room is not the same as keeping clear.

 

2.    When P is eligible for room at an obstruction (19.2)

S is required to give room:  giving room is not the same as keeping clear

 

3.    When S has just acquired right of way and P is unable to avoid her (15)

S is required to give room:  giving room is not the same as keeping clear.

 

4.    When S is altering course in a way which would prevent P from being able to keep clear (16.1)

S is required to give room:  giving room is not the same as keeping clear.

 

5.    When S is ROW but would cause damage to P not keeping clear (14)

S is required to avoid contact.  Avoiding contact is not the same as keeping clear.

 

6.    When S is not racing and P is (23.1)

S is required to 'not interfere':  not interfering is not the same as keeping clear

 

7.    When S has the wind free and it is dark (col regs apply at night?)

COLREGS haven't given a starboard boat sailing downwind rights over a port tacker close hauled for about 50 years.

 

8.    When P is capsized, anchored, aground or rescuing (22)

S is required to avoid:  avoiding is not the same as keeping clear

 

9.    When S is in the process of taking a penalty (21.2)

Yup.

 

10.  When S is in the process of returning to re-start after being OCS (21.1)

Yup

 

11.  When S is sailing backwards (21.3)

Yup

 

12.  When P is on another leg, and S is not sailing her proper course (23.2)

S is required to 'not interfere':  not interfering is not the same as keeping clear

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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 9:14pm
As ever, the Devil is in the detail! Perhaps my question would be better worded along the lines of:
 
"In what situations would a port tack boat not be required to keep clear of one on Starboard?"
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 9:33pm
If your question had been 'In what circumstances may a port tack boat that does not keep clear of a boat on starboard not be penalised?' Your answer would have worked better.
 
 
Edit:  this post crossed with OhFFSake's preceding post.


Edited by Brass - 06 Dec 12 at 9:59pm
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by ohFFsake

As ever, the Devil is in the detail! Perhaps my question would be better worded along the lines of:
 
"In what situations would a port tack boat not be required to keep clear of one on Starboard?"
It's a bit metaphysical, but if a rule says you shall keep clear, you are required to keep clear, even though you might otherwise be exonerated, or not penalised.
 
Maybe the better question would have been 'In what circumstances may a port tack boat that does not keep clear of a boat on starboard not be penalised?'
 
It's about precise use of language, not necessarily detail.
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 10:05pm
I agree that your definition is better, but it's putting the emphasis on the wrong boat! What I was trying to come up with was a list of situations where the rules place the onus on S to avoid P (be it by keeping clear, giving room or whatever), as a way of making people think a bit about their obligations and not just their rights.
(It also doesn't cover the rule 14 case...)
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