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Going dead downwind
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ColPrice2002 View Drop Down
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Going dead downwind
    Posted: 06 Dec 12 at 3:13pm
Hi,
 
"Colin, interesting that you are broaching dead downwind mate. I have never had this in a Solo, even in stupid winds. I have had a few 'Tank Slappers' but i always have a hand on the board control line to help get me out of jail. Jimbo, given Hunty a call mate if you want some cleaer understanding of what i was saying."
 
That's not quite what I meant...
On a dead run (Solo), I have only the "tiller nut" problems in steady winds. However, if I get hit by a gust - remember that I'm sailing inland on an old gravel pit - then there's a tendency for the Solo to gripe to windward. Using the rudder to correct this requires a lot of weather hem - slowing the boat - so the gust appears to be stronger.
By heeling to windward, the boat doesn't grip, and I can steer without putting on the brake...
 
Cheers,
 
Colin
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NickM View Drop Down
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Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 10:20pm
I bow to Jim Hunt's advice but I did say light airs only. My comment was based particularly on experience of sailing past (and through) about 10 boats at a Solo Open Meeting on a broad reach in a Force 1 sitting mostly forward of the thwart and heeling slightly to windward. But at 77kgs I'm not that heavy. I agree with other posters who say that you want to heel it enough to get neutral helm, not lee helm.
 
Jimbo: re training, I am sure that if you get onto the Association, they might agree to send a couple trainers along one weekend.  I would have thought that the Draycote Solo fleet would have done this in the past anyway.  
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 2:37pm
The only time my board gets adjusted is when i leave the shore and when i came back :)

I also found that in the 600 i was as quick leaving it down, i felt you could play the boat on any waves more aggressively/ confidently as the boat remained more stable and I didn't have to panic about the leeward mark and getting it back down again.
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Jimbo, given Hunty a call mate if you want some cleaer understanding of what i was saying.

I'm honestly tempted to run a Solo training session at the club in the spring- we can probably get the ribs for a tenner each through onboard, and I'll pay for either Andy or Jim's time- a far better investment in my sailing than carbon battens, a tactick compass or some go faster zhik underpants.  

But yes, I always knew downwind would be my major weakness in the Solo, but there's a challenge in it and all this info, whilst conflicting, at least gives me some set styles to compare and contrast to see what works best for me.
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 1:22pm
Roger, exactly my point about for and aft trim.  This is going to be an issue for Jimbo given his extra lard.  I would in the lighter stuff put my front leg over the traveller and sit on the thwart.  Any further forward you would dig the bow (you can hear the bow digging) andy further back and you could see the turbulance through the transom flaps.
 
Colin, interesting that you are broaching dead downwind mate.  I have never had this in a Solo, even in stupid winds. I have had a few 'Tank Slappers' but i always have a hand on the board control line to help get me out of jail.  Jimbo, given Hunty a call mate if you want some cleaer understanding of what i was saying.

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Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 12:09pm
Lots of conflicting advice about as usual, but just to cloud it all a bit more...

I never sit any further forward than one cheek either side of the traveller, I believe this is the current wisdom, the Solo buries it's bow very easily and this is slow. Watch the wake off the transom move forward till this is as flat as possible but don't go further.

Occasional windward heel, but I have reduced this over the last couple of seasons as I don't believe it's doing much good, lee helm is very easily induced by this windward heeling, feel the tiller, and again this isn't good, I now tend to manage heel downwind by the feel in the tiller, with neutral helm almost dead flat.

But I wouldn't argue with anything Jim Hunt says..
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ColPrice2002 View Drop Down
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 10:47am
I've found that windward heel on my Solo isn't necessarily faster than dead upright, (wetted area), but in windy/gusty conditions, it's much easier to control the dinghy (Centre of effort over the centre of the boat). Also the rudder blade acts with a vertical component which seems to reduce the death roll.
 
That means that I don't normally broach uncontrollably, not have to use excessive helm to steer. That's a lot faster than the alternatives...
 
Certainly I find I can gybe more easily and without the big drama of heading up just after the gybe.
I'd suggest the simple approach:-
If there's enough wind to keep the boom out when heeling to windward, then heel to windward...
 
Cheers,
 
Colin
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 10:07am
I'm not sure about that.  Just repeating what I was told by Jim.  Not many people have made a Solo go faster then him!!

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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Interesting Nick.  I tried the Windward heal thing a few times and was never sure if it worked or not.  The final nail in the coffin (sorry i know we are talking about Solo's) was after a chat with Jim Hunt.  Like Jimbo i am a bigger chap and struggled for downwind pace against the lighter guys (obviously) so i was after some tips to try and keep me in touch at least until i reached the mark and could overtake them all upwind again!!  Jim told me specifically not to heal the boat to windward downwind.  He said it was a common misconception that it was fast and certainly wasn't in a Solo, something to the hull shape not lending itself to it and actually not reducing as much wetted area as you may initially think.
Interesting, I'm not that familiar with the SOLO but can understand the shape noit lending itself to reducing wetted area.  However, what about the other advantage of bringing the CofE of the sail into line with the CofR of the hull to reduce rudder drag.  Surely that still applies?
 
Ian
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 12 at 7:52am
Interesting Nick.  I tried the Windward heal thing a few times and was never sure if it worked or not.  The final nail in the coffin (sorry i know we are talking about Solo's) was after a chat with Jim Hunt.  Like Jimbo i am a bigger chap and struggled for downwind pace against the lighter guys (obviously) so i was after some tips to try and keep me in touch at least until i reached the mark and could overtake them all upwind again!!  Jim told me specifically not to heal the boat to windward downwind.  He said it was a common misconception that it was fast and certainly wasn't in a Solo, something to the hull shape not lending itself to it and actually not reducing as much wetted area as you may initially think.

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