Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
custom colours are in |
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Ruscoe ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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I dont think any suggested any performance increase! Just a rethink and refresh. Any performance increase would be frankly marginal even with a slightly newer sale design. Lets be honest the class is pretty much dead in its current guise (sorry if i am being cruel) The fact that you can now buy a brand new boat again for under £8k is a really good thing. Some people dont want a kite. (i can talk from my own experiences selling D-ones) which is fine, some people dont want to spend a fortune on a brand new Contender. Some people want a challenging ride from the wire. What options are there??? A 600 with a rehashed sail design in a new fabric, with a new single coloured hull in a mad colour or perhaps a stealth balck or dark grey would IMO increase awareness of the class. A new sail design beit jusst a change of fabric or a higher clew and more defined fat head would bring the boat right back into this centuary (just look how good the FF sail looks) and with a bit of supprt from RS i think the class could get back up off its knees again. As i said in my earlier posts (if you bothered to read them) i dont intend on buying one, or any RS frankly. But thats for my own reasons. Even if i did buy one i would not join the association again, but thats for my own reasons. But i am just giving my opinion, which i think is a valid one. I beleive the class is out of date, with no real numbers racing anymore. Improve one of these things and you may improve the other.
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Personally, I think 'updating' the look of sails by changing to fat-head designs does not turn them into a modern boat, it just looks like they are trying to imitate the skiffs. That has a danger of making the rest of the boat look dated, and makes people think they could buy the real thing instead. It's a bit like Japanese imitations of Harleys, more people buy the real thing and ridicule the pastiches.
It also just moves the SMOD into the next time frame, you can never catch up or overtake the development classes, trying is a mugs game. People are talking about performance increases. Ask the 800 fleet. Changing the planform of the sails will change things, maybe not a gain in every condition, but enough that you have to have the right sail to be competitive. I think that might work for the 800, there are enough people with cash in that class to make it work. I agree that raising awareness of the 600 would be good, but I'm not sure how best to do that without working against the existing fleet. |
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Ruscoe ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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I'm sorry but i dont understand how changing a sail design (an item which has a linited life) is going to be detrimental to the class. First of all as with Most RS sail developments (other than the 400) the sail plan stays the same - Check out the 300. Using more modern cloth WILL make the boat look sympathetically more modern. FACT. Its not trying to catch up with development classes its just bringing the boat cosmetically into this centuary. But like what they did with the 400, 300 soon the 800 etc. etc. I think its a great thing, as long as its voted for by the class properly. Like it or not the 600 needs to sell new boats to survive long term. I beleive people will not buy that type of boat with a sail that has seen no update other than the sail makers mark in the near on 20 years the boat has been made it looks old, heavy and unlike classes like the the Laser its design has aged very quickly. So what i am saying is give people the option to vote in a new design or sail cloth. This would give the class something to shout about, coupled with the fact you can now actually buy a brand new UK built boat at a good price. Couple this with a decent marketing strategy and demo boat/charter opportunity and you have in my opinion the green shoots of some kidn of recovery. What you are sugesting is just let the lads sail their £1500 scrappers with duck taped sails. No point spending the money on the class, when quite clearly there is a point in spending money on the boat. It fills a proper niche.
using your own analogy, why bother investing in a 400 when the Merlin is frankly so much better??!!
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Well the RS400 has a lot of 'point' in having a decent sized asymmetric, giving great fun downwind.
That gives it a unique niche in non-trapeze boats, which results in a decent size fleet to race in. The existing fleet of 600's do not seem to change their sails very often. By the fleet, in this context, I mean people who attend events. There are a large number of other 600's not being used much, they tend to change hands for £1500 to £2500, so wiping off the value of a mainsail is a fair percentage. I think any change in the sail beyond cloth would result in a reluctance of people to move into the class until the dust has settled, and might catalyse a few people into moving on. Any shape change that makes people think racing with a good, old style sail is futile would be very damaging IMHO. Changing the cloth might work well, keeping the same outline. It will be interesting to see how many they sell this winter. But TBH, if I wanted one and had £8k I'd expect to able ask for any colours in the gelcoat catalogue. If it's a boat built to order the extra cost ought to be trivial. |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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especially from a boat builder that regularly sells boats of all colours.
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Al |
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Alex Newton-Southon ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 02 Feb 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Rusco
Will do and I'll see what happens will keep people informed as I personally feel it could be a step forward for the class. On a separate note and without going over old ground... again, I agree the Musto is a very successful class, personally I do see there being space in the market for both classes as the Rs700 offers different things due to the cockpit design, easier to sail because of the soft sail and carries a wider weight band. We have fleets growing in France, Italy and Czech republic. Just despatched a new boat to Switzerland yesterday and currently with the new deal we have new boats on order for the UK and Czech republic, i think for some people its a better option. Anyway may be i'm a little biased ;0) Alex Alex Newton-Southon. Technical Director. RS Sailing 19 Premier Way Abbey Park Romsey SO51 9DQ Direct line. 01794 526763 Mobile. 0791 944 6242 Fax. 01794 278418 Skype. alsouthon E-mail. alex@rssailing.com web site. www.rssailing.com |
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Ruscoe ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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Alex,
Thats fair enough. I am perhaps being a bit narrow minded and not seeing the bigger picture. I know the european market is somewhat different to that of the UK. From personal experience.
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Alex Newton-Southon ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 02 Feb 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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We are limited to only Epoxy compatible gelcoats, there is significantly less option than normal polyester gelcoats. There are ways around using them but could significantly impact on cost.
Alex
Alex Newton-Southon. Technical Director. RS Sailing 19 Premier Way Abbey Park Romsey SO51 9DQ Direct line. 01794 526763 Mobile. 0791 944 6242 Fax. 01794 278418 Skype. alsouthon E-mail. alex@rssailing.com web site. www.rssailing.com |
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getafix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
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point well made, you can't argue when peeps put their money where their mouth/keyboard is (or isn't)
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chris_wht ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
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Going to have to disagree on that one (although maybe a little biased...) i think the 600 is a far nicer looking boat than say the 700 and the musto, alot more agressive looking with the long curved foredeck, raked back mast and chineless design. And then consider also its nearest equivalent in the old / heavy stakes is the contender...... Would be ace to great more in the class, and the ability to buy a reasonably priced new one can only be a very good thing, hopefully breathing a bit of a new lease of life in. I do feel however that more needs to be made of the boats plus points, from my limited time in the class it does seem to be that alot of people see them as just a cheap stepping stone to a 700 or mps, when they can be so much more than that. |
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