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Hornet View Drop Down
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Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hornet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS400 proposed changes
    Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 9:51am
Trust me, every effort was made to get voting forms out to all CA members. there were notices emailed, posted and advertised. If you missed it, then it can only be your fault.....bar hunting you down and ramming a form down your throat, there was little else the class could do.
Anyone would think you were responsible for comms for the CA!
 
The sailcloth used for the old mains is pretty much only used for them the 2s and the 6. its expensive, it is a more sustainable move, to use a modern material plus the cost of a main dropped £100
So if its so exspensive why have the 2s still not discussed changing yet? think that answer is BULLS**T ! As for £100 less hardly a massive saving is it if you only get 5 years out of a new main? i think your as deluded as RS on that one if you think the main will last as longer than that!
Did speccy change? did stewart or jim change sails?
Both times i have seen speccy compete this year in a 4 he was using a new old style Main with a new jib! is this a competitor thats worried about protecting mainsails? i think not!
A whole load of engineering and time went into the development of the 400. RS spent a fortune in materials and labour, sailors gave up days and days to help with the development, it was not rushed through i can assure you that
Like i say i think you are deluded! wasn't the pole an 800 pole? if it was a whole lot of engineering went into that not and what was the answer ? dont look at sorting the issue out with the hull lets go for the cheaper option of whacking an insert up the middle! yeah really well engineered that is!
an engineer knows the process of design and its evolution.....you sir do not! 
 
A bit presumtious of you isn't it?  Angry you know nothing about me, and i am wondering if you actually work for RS Or have been cloned by them, as that is actually the attitude they take by presuming their customers are idiots and know nothing!! 
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 10:43am
It would be nice if the pole issue was sorted.
I don't see making one out of carbon/epoxy to be that difficult.
OTOH, the ali one was more reliable than virtually any other Rs component (certainly broke less often than rudder blades, masts, booms,....) so why change it?

It can't help sell boats if the top guys are not seen to use the 'off the shelf' product but rely on having old poles which are no longer on sale.
Or is it possible to buy a new boat with an ali pole?
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Hornet

Trust me, every effort was made to get voting forms out to all CA members. there were notices emailed, posted and advertised. If you missed it, then it can only be your fault.....bar hunting you down and ramming a form down your throat, there was little else the class could do.
Anyone would think you were responsible for comms for the CA!
 
The sailcloth used for the old mains is pretty much only used for them the 2s and the 6. its expensive, it is a more sustainable move, to use a modern material plus the cost of a main dropped £100
So if its so exspensive why have the 2s still not discussed changing yet? think that answer is BULLS**T ! As for £100 less hardly a massive saving is it if you only get 5 years out of a new main? i think your as deluded as RS on that one if you think the main will last as longer than that!
Did speccy change? did stewart or jim change sails?
Both times i have seen speccy compete this year in a 4 he was using a new old style Main with a new jib! is this a competitor thats worried about protecting mainsails? i think not!
A whole load of engineering and time went into the development of the 400. RS spent a fortune in materials and labour, sailors gave up days and days to help with the development, it was not rushed through i can assure you that
Like i say i think you are deluded! wasn't the pole an 800 pole? if it was a whole lot of engineering went into that not and what was the answer ? dont look at sorting the issue out with the hull lets go for the cheaper option of whacking an insert up the middle! yeah really well engineered that is!
an engineer knows the process of design and its evolution.....you sir do not! 
 
A bit presumtious of you isn't it?  Angry you know nothing about me, and i am wondering if you actually work for RS Or have been cloned by them, as that is actually the attitude they take by presuming their customers are idiots and know nothing!! 

Was i Comms Rep? Yes.
RS did propose the change to the 2s......they weren't interested. Its a sailcloth made specifically for the RS range as no one else uses it.....it is expensive for that reason. The new Main lasts suprisingly longer than we first expected, maybe not as long as the old style, but then the olds mains shrank after an hours sailing in sunlight......what lasts longer now?
Was it an 800 pole? No
Did speccy use a new main for the nats? yes! was that his most competative sail? yes! Are the rest of the top of the fleet happy with the new sails.....who knows, but they use them, Im happy with ours, its a better sail.

I alone put alot of development into the design, along with another dozen sailors, none of which were paid, all doing it in their free time for the association. RS put a hell of alot of time and finance into it, did they have to? No! Did they do it for increase sales, probably not, im guessing the sale of a 4 doesnt bring them a great profit. But the people that put the time in didn't do it for jumped up little c**ts like yourself to say the time didnt get put in!

I'm nothing to do with RS, just a customer who is happy with the service. I can assure you they listen to issues. Earlier this year they went to quite extensive lengths to resolve a problem i had. I couldn't disagree more with you on that.

I may not know much about you, but i do know 2 things:
1: I can make a 400 go quite quickly so i believe my opinion is as valid as most and...
2. You are a t**ser


Edited by Jamesd - 08 Nov 12 at 12:14pm
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 11:49am
Originally posted by RS400atC

It would be nice if the pole issue was sorted.
I don't see making one out of carbon/epoxy to be that difficult.
OTOH, the ali one was more reliable than virtually any other Rs component (certainly broke less often than rudder blades, masts, booms,....) so why change it?

It can't help sell boats if the top guys are not seen to use the 'off the shelf' product but rely on having old poles which are no longer on sale.
Or is it possible to buy a new boat with an ali pole?

It will be sorted soon (no idea if i should say that, but sod it, no one told me to keep it a secret)
It was pretty much done as a way of getting the single hoist system to work, which doesn't work with the ali one. 
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 11:52am
RS and the CA must be really pleased that the comms rep is flinging personal insults at their customers.
Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Kev M

RS and the CA must be really pleased that the comms rep is flinging personal insults at their customers.

Not any more im not. im an average joe customer standing up for my class and my friends within the class. 
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 12:04pm
but you said in the previous, using the present tense, that you're the coms rep.
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farc anal View Drop Down
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Posts: 54 		Post Options Post Options   Quote farc anal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 12:17pm
"Am i Comms Rep? Yes.
RS did propose the change to the 2s......they weren't interested. Its a sailcloth made specifically for the RS range as no one else uses it.....it is expensive for that reason. The new Main lasts suprisingly longer than we first expected, maybe not as long as the old style, but then the olds mains shrank after an hours sailing in sunlight......what lasts longer now?
Was it an 800 pole? No
Did speccy use a new main for the nats? yes! was that his most competative sail? yes! Are the rest of the top of the fleet happy with the new sails.....who knows, but they use them, Im happy with ours, its a better sail.

I alone put alot of development into the design, along with another dozen sailors, none of which were paid, all doing it in their free time for the association. RS put a hell of alot of time and finance into it, did they have to? No! Did they do it for increase sales, probably not, im guessing the sale of a 4 doesnt bring them a great profit. But the people that put the time in didn't do it for jumped up little c**ts like yourself to say the time didnt get put in!

I'm nothing to do with RS, just a customer who is happy with the service. I can assure you they listen to issues. Earlier this year they went to quite extensive lengths to resolve a problem i had. I couldn't disagree more with you on that.

I may not know much about you, but i do know 2 things:
1: I can make a 400 go quite quickly so i believe my opinion is as valid as most and...
2. You are a t**ser"


heading down thev potty eh !!!

praps should be moved to sailing anarchy 

good to see forum delving to lower depths , or I have I been inattentive ??

Sounds like a nice class to sail with .


Wink Wink Wink
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Hornet View Drop Down
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Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hornet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 12:42pm

Out of all the things i have said i am a very happy 400 sailor who is passionate about the boat and promotes the class within my own club ferociously, i think its a great design and you get mega bangs for your bucks second hand, yes i have had bad experiences as a customer from the manufacturer but i am also mature enough to understand people have good experiences and to respect thier viewpoint.

It is a personal view that i just wished the changes had been handled better with more thought that was the point i wished to make Big smile
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boatbasher View Drop Down
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Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 12 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Jamesd


Was i Comms Rep? Yes.

... jumped up little c**ts like yourself ...

You are a t**ser



Well I can see why you'd be comms rep for RS ... no problem getting your point over
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