Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Solo fleet still growing |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 5:03pm |
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The Punk is, by a country mile, a nicer boat to sail than a Solo in my limited experience. Not simply because it uses modern materials, or because it is lighter, but because it has way more 'feel' but is just as easy to sail. This is a credit to Dan's attention to detail and understanding of the subtleties of a nice design.
I can't help but feel that if the value of a design is in its established class association rather than the boat itself, a fairer pricing policy would be to sell the boat cheaply and charge a large annual fee for CA membership. An antiquated design has little intrinsic value. |
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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Graeme you're a product marketeer- one with enough tooth to have had successes and failures, and you need both to comment with any degree of authority. But the point you're missing here is that few will buy a solo for the product per say, you buy for a class and class racing and in turn this is a self-fulfilling market. The product is, dare I say, a secondary consideration.
there's no question in my mind which is the nicer boat- the Punk wins hands down and if they were being sailed at my club, say instead of the Laser, I'd buy one like a shot. as Dan points out, the unstated mast is something that I now know would be on a 'dream unarig' for me (thanks Rodney!) So what if I'm a bit heavy.... it's the class racing that appeals, and for the clubs in my area, for s/h, it's either Laser or Solo. Out of those two, which would you choose? Edited by pondmonkey - 04 Nov 12 at 4:13pm |
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Daniel Holman ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
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There is no difference in the fitness demands between punk boat and solo. I suspect that the guys who win nationally in solos are fit, and do a lot of sailing. Sailing style almost identical - slow hiking singlehander. More scope for by the lee in unstayed punk boat . Tbh there isn't anything in it re sailor weight either. Punk boat has 5% less sail and 9% less beam on deck. Suspect that well engineered modern rig and carbon mast enhances tuning range a little to get closer to the solo's multi mast/ sail options. So, fleets apart, it would be simply a matter of which would be nicer to sail and own. |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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From what I now understand even those in the waiting room would be better off in a Punk, at least they could get back into it if they fell out.
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Once again you miss the point GRF. If there were 50 of each you'd choose the one that most suited your body weight, fitness, sailing style.... (So if you were in God's waiting room you'd have the Solo)
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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I wonder how many people buy the kite gear thinking its a cool sport to get into, try 2 or 3 times, don't succeed immediately and then throw it in the shed for ever more. There are bound to be plenty of those within your figures grf. It happens plenty in sailing too, you only have to look around the boat parks of any clubs, but that tends to be those older boats.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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But kite kit costs a grand and a half, including atan booties, 5mm wetsuit, harness, board shorts for over the top and a free wooly italian jumper if you'd care to email a seasprite employee for 'advice' beforehand.
You could probably get on the water for £800 if you don't mind last year's graphics and a kite someone has flamed to death on the internet so there's a stock pile going cheap. A new laser is 5 grand... I want that to last, I want it to resale and I probably want to work up to it by buying second hand to start with. Only once you've gone through such an ownership cycle can you then decided what is, and isn't worth trading up to. Even then, there's no guarantees you won't f*ck up the choices along the way, I know I have. No one is pretending it's a very 21st century easy come, easy go process. In fact 'hooking people in' is always going to be a challenge while singlehanders are so popular. Years ago, a newbie could spend a few seasons crewing before really outlaying much capital, but we're so time poor that two handers are a luxury many of us just can't afford... so the cycle continues.
Edited by pondmonkey - 02 Nov 12 at 4:08pm |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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The thing is if the market were structured the way it should have been getting 600 units into it isn't a big deal, but it's not, it's lead by it's own consumer base all thinking they know best, which of course they don't, they only know what they have and not what could be.
We sell and introduce well over 600 kite setups every year and so I guess do a few of our competitors, that's because a) Folk want to do it. b)They want to do it now and not wait for months c)There is someone enthusiastic selling them it and profiting by the sale over a wide geographic area. Sailing might have a) but falls down on b) and c) with the result you end up with the sad lot that this thread is about. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I guess the last singlehanded dinghy to come in as something new and exciting for adults in the dinghy sailing world and actually spread root and branch through the sailing world would be the Laser in 1971?
And if you limit it to the UK, then the Blaze, back in the mid 90's? And to get 50 punks regularly at Open Meetings, you'd need a hell of a lot more than 50 of them built. Maybe 600? If lucky with the people sailing them. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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but wouldn't the punk lose its charm if there were 50 of them? It was lose 95% of it anyway as soon as Mr Holman wasn't sailing it. He built it for himself, not someone else and it actually f**king works!!! That's something I personally think surpasses any design goals or handling characteristics.
As for Q2... yeah, let's all get in whoop-whoop for something 'new' & 'exciting'... been there, done that, paid for the T-Shirts... and has it delivered for the average club sailor- inland or coastal? Honestly?
Edited by pondmonkey - 02 Nov 12 at 3:33pm |
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