Cirrus Icon Development

I see the good and bad points of all levels of class rule.
Whether you have complete freedom to change everything or it's a totally controlled SMOD like the L4000 where you can't change the string, that's all fine if you know what you are buying into.
In my view some of the changes made to the 400 are not optimum, but we are now at a point where people can reasonably buy into the class knowing where they stand for the next 5 years.
Compare with the Alto, where AFAIK, some boats were sold, then some other boats had a different sailplan.
You can't please everyone, but you have to be clear about this kind of thing. Otherwise you will find that some people thoguht they were buying into a nice simple boat, while others are thinking in terms of shroud levers and an adjustable jib halyard. If you allow those things, people will need them to be competitive.

I appreciate that class rules change, that is an interesting issue in a new, small class, where an influx of buyers could easily outvote the early adopters. Somehow you have to define the ethos of the class to keep people on board.

Originally posted by Rupert But will the 1st Open be in the UK, or on an Italian lake?

Hmm, I like the sound of an Italian lake, especially if it begins with a 'G'.  Also an excuse to take the Alfa to its motherland!

As I sail with Mrs B this would probably be easy to get 'approval', but more difficult for people like Mike L who would have to try & separate Andy from his combine.

Originally posted by RS400atC I see the good and bad points of all levels of class rule. Whether you have complete freedom to change everything or it's a totally controlled SMOD like the L4000 where you can't change the string, that's all fine if you know what you are buying into. In my view some of the changes made to the 400 are not optimum, but we are now at a point where people can reasonably buy into the class knowing where they stand for the next 5 years. Compare with the Alto, where AFAIK, some boats were sold, then some other boats had a different sailplan. You can't please everyone, but you have to be clear about this kind of thing. Otherwise you will find that some people thoguht they were buying into a nice simple boat, while others are thinking in terms of shroud levers and an adjustable jib halyard. If you allow those things, people will need them to be competitive. I appreciate that class rules change, that is an interesting issue in a new, small class, where an influx of buyers could easily outvote the early adopters. Somehow you have to define the ethos of the class to keep people on board.

I think thats just forum talk more then anything else.  Even if shroud levers and adjustable forestays were adopted, its still early enough for Devoti to send out replacement parts (check out some of the 100 Mods) where RS have improved on slight flaws to make the boat better.  I would be more comfortable buying an Icon currently then a 400 where there is still questions over new hulls being faster, sail plans being quicker, stiffness over poles.  At least if i bought an icon i could retrofit shroud levers if needed or decide i want two seperate towstraps or a hull mounted mainsheet jammer.  None of which are optional on the 400.  Both Devoti an Cirus know what they are doing, the only confussing messages for perspective purchaser are questions bought up on here.  The rule set and class association will come.  One thing is for sure, the dealer network and quality of the builder is second to few if none, so the support will be there for new owners....But then i would say that!

Originally posted by Ruscoe Even if shroud levers and adjustable forestays were adopted, its still early enough for Devoti to send out replacement parts (check out some of the 100 Mods) where RS have improved on slight flaws to make the boat better.

Reading all the above, changes to rules etc etc. As somebody who is in the market in the next couple of years i would only buy into a class that has a firm footing that looks as though it will develop into a really competitive fleet, something that will return a reasonably good second hand price, and something that has well set class rules. In the current economic climate, I'm not about to part with my money easily (I may well move on to a completely different vfm activity altogether). I don;t think that is wholly different from lots of people right now. I'd really like to see a "name" sailing the boat...someone who will set it up and race it properly...thats not happening yet. I think plenty of people would sit up and take notice if that happened. For me, yes, I'd want some well established class rules before I parted with £7K-£8K (or whatever the price is), and again, personally, if the PY is sub-1000, even more attractive. The waterline length is longer than a Merlin, its significantly lighter than a Merlin, with pretty much the same sail area. So the potential is defineitly there for it to be a much quicker boat than 1020 suggests. The Tasar is only 3 points slower, is shorter waterline, and has significantly less sail area. Its gonna be so so much quicker when people learn how to sail the boats properly. So really looking forward to that...and keeping an eye for the not too distant future.