Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Muppets in Irons. |
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getafix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 26 Sep 12 at 1:45pm |
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fleaberto ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Graeme,
I tend to bear away a little before going in for the tack in my EPS. I probably sail it a bit too high at times and it quickly loses momentum, thus stalls super-quickly.
At just under 11st and with the 'big' rig, I try not to let it roll too much as I'm quickly flattened as I come out the other side - with a slight over-tack just to get moving, then, once up to speed, head up a little....a bit like sailing a cat really.
If/when I'm into irons, then push-push, pull-pull works, as well as lifting the daggerboard.
I'm learning not to sail the EPS too high anyway in order to avoid the ironing - and no, no amount of expletives seem to work.....not even ones I invent on the spur of the moment ('cocktwanger' burst forth last week....try that).
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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I find the trick with the 8.1 is to be very precise with your tacking especially if you are a little on the light side and don't sheet in until you know you can hold the boat flat. With the rig being so much taller than the radial and the standard there is a lot more 'leverage' up top so pulling it flat with the same potential righting moment gets much harder much quicker. I also find that grinding on the cunningham helps as getting stuck in irons in the 8,1 is usually because you are overpowered. It may help to ease the kicker a little before you tack too. Aside from that I find the 8.1 a dream in an F3. I am overpowered in a F4 and anything more than that I tend to stick the standard sail on and go and play with the lightweights.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Its a real combination of things, position of cb relative to rocker line, relative to leech position.
Foil efficiency at low speed is clearly a factor, and full length battens clearly hold the leech up adding to the problem. The reason that 100 and 700 are difficult is probably the position of the leech. Both boats run very long booms which overhang the stern slightly, that coupled to foils which less than perfect. The 600 was always difficult but mainly down to the full length battens. Interestingly enough Toppers can be pretty bad in big winds possible because they carry their rocker well forward. |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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I've always thought it was to do with the quality of the foils and the relation ship between the mast position and the centre/daggerboard being not that well placed. It is also to do with the size of the sail against the weight of the helm and the position of that weight, tbh I've been thinking about it a lot since i started this thread, wondering if I designed a different sail style it might be a bit more resilient.
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Why are some boats worse than others for getting stuck in irons? I know battens can make a difference, but why would an 8.1 be worse than a Radial? I'm with James, I found the 100 prototype impossible to tack and got caught every time.
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pondscum ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Nov 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 99 |
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This is the worst thing about sailing the 8.1 on a fluky pond. It goes backwards Sooo fast in anything over F3 ... it's difficult to steer it one way or the other. Tacking through a bigger angle is part of the solution.
As you weren't tacking, sounds like you were headed. Something else that happens all the time on the pond, have spent far too much time with the boat on top of me sitting in the water waiting for the reverse shift (or the more likely windward capsize). It's why the technique of easing out and not taking the full lift/gust is good .. when you are headed you can sheet in more.
I am reminded of the description of a tiny bunker at St Andrews - just big enough for an angry man and his niblick. Not that I golf. |
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tickler ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jun 07 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 895 |
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As everyone knows I am a congenitally useless sailor. Because of this when I tack I expect to over tack and end up sheeted out and off the wind. I then hike (sort of) , sheet in and try to point in the right direction. I have sailed fully battened boats (Byte and Solo) and never get in irons. It may be slow but not as slow as reversing in irons.
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iansmithofotley ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Otley, West Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Hi Graeme,
I am 5' 9" and have been 15 stones (95 kgs), or just less, for the past twenty five years. I have had my Phantom for eight years. I am an average club sailor and get hammered at open meetings as I just don't have the knowledge, skills and ability to do well. I have found that the Phantom sailors at open meetings, which I have attended, vary greatly in weight from around 13 stones to over 18 stones. It seems that the 'good' sailors can do well at most weights in that range. The Phantom is a great boat and has the flexibility to adjust the rig, or choose the sails, according to the sailor's height, weight and ability, in the prevailing conditions. I have sailed in a lot of very strong winds at my club, over the years, and unless it is blowing a hooligan, I can usually survive. When I say 'survive', I can usually get around the race course but probably with a poor result. The boat is a 'handful', for me, once it gets over F3 - F4 but I still love the boat. I just enjoy the sailing and the racing. As a late starter into sailing (mid thirties), and now, at my age, I know that I am unlikely to ever get any better. I get my satisfaction from the racing and knowing that I have done my best. I also sail at a great place in a beautiful area, along with a lot of very good sailors. The Phantom, like a Laser, is not the boat for everybody as some people like kites and trapezes and say that they get bored with simple una-rigged boats, particularly downwind. I have been the only Phantom at my club for the past eight years except for a short period when a young 'giant' had one but hardly ever sailed at the club. He has now sold it and sails elsewhere as he is away at university. As 90% of racing at my club is handicap racing I do find that I have no other boats to compete with, on the water, unless there are some RS 200's racing or a Finn (we only have one of those too). We have a decent Laser fleet but they get their own separate start. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.) Ian
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vscott ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 181 |
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Lifting the daggerboard will also make it easier to get out of irons - doesn't matter that is is a daggerboard, not a centreboard, it still helps get past the stage where you think you are bearing away but the boat just stops and goes back.
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Mk IV Osprey 1314 Think Again
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