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Cirrus Icon Development
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cirrus Icon Development
    Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Roughly:

Icon    ~90kg
400     129kg
Merlin 129kg?
200     114kg
Tasar   93kg?


For some reason I'm struck by the thought that some Merlins could be relatively close to the iCon's weight, if you took out all the lead.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 3:52pm
There's no reason why the bare hull weights shouldn't be similar. By the time you've added in 20kg of lead, 10kg of Harken and 5kg of English Braid it adds up though.   
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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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Posts: 372 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 4:03pm
Thanks for the data, it really shows why the Icon is a step forward. It has turned a rather jaded Finn sailor into somebody who can't wait to get out onto the water, in retrospect, I wish I had tried the Tasar years ago, then moved through to the Icon.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 6:02pm
TR -  The Tasar was and is a very good boat but was never properly marketed in the Europe where it was very advanced in the mid-70's when it was launched.  The class is a minor but very enthusiastic one here but a 'key class' in several other part sof the world.  I raced them with my young son for several years when he was not strong enough to play the 200's spinnaker in breeze (we had an early one ... 232 I think) and you cannot wait for long at that age so we switched and simply loved the Tasar.... roll on a few seasons, a lot of fun and a few open wins ... son and I are starting to get a bit heavy for the boat and it was time to move on but we had a great time in medium and stronger winds ( The Tasar is a bit sticky in the lighter stuff). 

All in all a major influence on Icons development and concept - BOTH came out of the NS14 heritage but displaced in time by about 35 years ... Modern NS's hulls do better across a wider wind range but that is not to say the Tasar is still not a great boat.   The rigs are very different as well but again that is the effect of time passing - I think if Frank B. had developed the Tasar concept in the early part of this century rather than in the 70's would be close to Icon for sure, including carbon stick mast rather than rotating alloy.

Mike L.
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Rod Porteous View Drop Down
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Posts: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 10:08pm
Mike is right the Tasar is an outstanding boat with  a stong following still attracting over 30 boats at their  2012 Nationals with top sailors such as Steve Cockeril sailing into second place. A boat thats competition was the Enterprise it was staggering the Tasar was not more successful .For a full explanation of its advance design take a read of Frank Bethwaite ( the Tasar designer) high performance sailing.
 
Dont know where Peaky gets 93Kg the current class weight is 68Kg hull weight, early boats (34 yrs) are kevlar still competitive and weigh around 58Kg my boat  351 is probably one of lightest built at 56Kg and in good hands still capable of winninng a nationals.
 
If as it seems Mike's Icon exceeds the Tasar performance it will fill a specific niche  and deserves to be a great success, I am looking forward to sailing one, good luck with it Mike
 
Rod
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Peaky

There's no reason why the bare hull weights shouldn't be similar.   

I'd say there are some very good reasons, but this is not the place...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 10:32pm
Hi Rod,

I know the hull weight of a Tasars, but was estimating all up weight, as per the question. Maybe it's nearer 90kg, but I do know that the masts are darn heavy!
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Rod Porteous View Drop Down
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Posts: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 10:43pm
Peaky all up weight is around 87kg MAX The mast is heavy but not circa 20kg!!!
 
There is also discussion about going to a carbon mast but with the recent death of Frank Bethwaite this has gone into pause mode.
 
Cant wait to give the Icon a go. Mike will be interested to know that i have just sold the Merlin!! and need to sort atest sail.


Edited by Rod Porteous - 18 Sep 12 at 10:46pm
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 11:07pm
Rod

Ready as soon as you are ... correction when 03 is back home !  ... or when I have another mast for the other Cirrus Icon demo boat ... or er .... whatever anyway lets just say 'soon'.  Give me a call.

Mike L.

PS - Always wondered about your Tasar hull weight !  I'd say Tasar and Icon are roughly about the same overall weight - Icons hull is a tad heavier possibly but the rig/foils lighter.   
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Rod Porteous View Drop Down
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Posts: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 12 at 8:27am
Mike
 
I do always race with lead in the boat (that includes the 3rd in Round Sheppy!!!) after winning two National races and being disqualified for being 0.5kg below class weight of 68Kg,
Look forward to the sailing the icon
 
Rod
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