New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Cirrus Icon Development
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Cirrus Icon Development

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 123124125126127 152>
Author
Thunder Road View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Jun 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 372
Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cirrus Icon Development
    Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 9:58am
03 had a good weekend, light stuff on Saturday, took a couple of try sailing novices out, both ended up having a little go at helming. Yesterday blowing old boots but went out fell in, my fault old rugby injuries taking their toll, but she was well mannered in a capsize and before we did it she was well manner in wind (upto 25mph in gusts). A Finn sailor has to get used to the change in sailing type, light cavalry versus heavy, but really enjoying it. If we must have the car comparison, it is like arriving at the club in a Scirocco R and then sailing one, in terms of build and performance.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
Back to Top
cad99uk View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 11 Mar 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Post Options Post Options   Quote cad99uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 12:13pm
TR,
 
When capsized could you climb onto the centreboard from the water? i.e. Icon on it's side, how high is the centrboard from the water?
Back to Top
Thunder Road View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Jun 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 372
Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 1:09pm
Good question, as a an ex second row forward/Finn sailor, I didn't need to, but I could have done. Lesley was scooped into the boat and I got in over the back. Not elegant!
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 2:36pm

We capsized Icon repeatedly in development as part of the progrtamme ... (occassionally unintentionally) but the boat is remarkably forgiving with its very light rig.  The mast is semi-sealed with standing rigging totally external and the main halyard being the only one that is housed within the tube.... but the top fitting is filled with epoxy and exactly drilled out to 4.3mm to take the 4mm halyard.  This means it floods very slowly (cannot remember if 03 has this treatment though !) - ie we were making sure inversion was as slow as possible.

What we found was that reasonably sized crews could right the boat from its side just by pulling the centreboard down to the surface (it is easy) and often (in my case !) before I had a chance to fully get on it.  Scooping the crew up became almost standard practice and is recommended - if they don't get fully scooped then they could grab onto the shround on that side as it came up stabalising the boat.  Something we also adopted from the NS 14 was the rear quarters were relatively low in the water (ie reduced freeboard towards the back) - a simple boarding techinique was to reach in, grab the toestrap and pull yourself in (the gunwhale join is 'smooth' and makes this very easy.  Some boats are an absolute horror to board once you have righted them if you don't make it climbing over as they come up !

Don'y worry about 'style' points too much !

Cheers - Mike L.

TR .... what did you think of the acceleration etc in a bit more wind then ?  There is a bit of an 'extra gear' in Icon's gearbox to be found   Wink


Edited by blaze720 - 10 Sep 12 at 2:39pm
Back to Top
Thunder Road View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Jun 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 372
Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 3:07pm
She lacks vices would be my first comment, the extra gear is certainly there and being new to her, we find it, then loose it quickly in those conditions. On Saturday after doing the trial sail thing, we took her out again as the wind had come up and in those marginal conditions we could keep her in that gear a little longer and we did feel on occasions that we might need a bigger lake, the dam wall seemed to accelerate towards us rapidly! I think time on the water and lots of playing against boats of a known speed is the answer. We are looking forward to the true GBR16 (ROXIE) to arrive, we are looking forward to making her ours with the small mods allowed. And finally to answer the question about the mast, no 03 hasn't had the treatment, so the proper one will be even better !
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 4:19pm
Key is to NOT pinch or over-sheet with this sort of configuration - let the boat 'flow' and almost find its own best angles.  Icon will point very high when needed but best VMG is a bit freer.  We often overtake by going through the lee of many other classes - it keep the boat going fast, the rig pulls you through quickly and the 'overtaken' often oblige by that knee-jerk 'pinch' as you approach - just what we want.

The jib needs to be carefully managed - out of tacks match the first foot of it or so to the edge of the deck - no tighter.  Once up to speed you can tighten it just a tad if needed.   Do experiment with the pole - when you get it right the boat will really fly.  Once experienced the crew will often play both pole line and jib sheet at the same time, especially when cracked off close hauled - when they find the optimium shape the helm can feel the difference on the main.

Down wind in breeze we often pole the jib out of course and dogleg downwind.  You can also try leaving the jib on one side and just gybing the main.  You trim the jib as required still and on one side you will most likely be best off going 'deep' and on the other 'tighter and faster'  The overall track downwind followed means that no asymetric or conventional spinnaker boat is likely to continually shadow you in similar fashion.

Another trick I'm sure the N12's must do already is to 'brake' the boat on the start line or approaching a crowded marke when you want to intentionally slow - 'pole on' against the wind.  We are still finding things possible with this system and as Icon has a largish jib it is great fun to crew as well. 

Icon is a subtle and interesting creature but not 'tempremental' in any respect.   It will be good to have 2 or 3 at the Forumites meeting. 

Mike L.

  
Back to Top
Thunder Road View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Jun 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 372
Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 5:19pm
Thank you for the information, we will experiment with all those points next weekend. I am sure you appreciate we are on a big learning curve, makes it more fun and we really think we have found the right boat. It made the residual value debate last week all a bit pointless and strange on a development forum, sorry if I got heated on that one?
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 12 at 5:43pm
'Learning' new boats is always interesting.   I went to the 'dark side' that is board racing for nearly 16 years well into my 30's then saw the light and returned.  It was both great fun and a real challenge to to 're-learn' dinghies and I've enjoyed it even more in the 'n' years since and after the eye-opener of board development kept a very open mind on what can 'work'. 

We only stop learning new things ... when we consciously choose not to learn. 

Mike L.


Back to Top
peterthomas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34
Post Options Post Options   Quote peterthomas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 11:11pm
Scottsfinn asked:
 
"How is the Icon. Your views, weights of crew etc. Any photos in a breeze?"
 
This was taken from the harbour wall at Lyme in June.  Yes alright, I know its not flat enough but it was early days.  With a bit more experience now I can say that in a breeze and waves and with the right technique, the upwind performance, in particular, is amazing.  But then so are the reaches!
 
Nicely summed up by a comment as I was leaving the club after last Sunday's racing "I bet you were quite pleased with that"
 
No bits have fallen off, although the helm did fall out yesterday!
 
Back to Top
Ruscoe View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1514
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 12:04am
Looks great, must be a thrill in the lumps of Lyme (my favorite sailing location) One thing the Jibb seems awfully open at the top of the leech.  Have the controls for the jib changed now so you can control foot and leech tension?

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 123124125126127 152>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy