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Cirrus Icon Development

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Noah View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 10:13am
Originally posted by SailDad

Originally posted by rodney

Originally posted by maxibuddah

Get it down to Shoreham always spectacular photos from there

Last time I sailed from Shoreham the waves were higher than my mast  Ermm

I will second that - great venue - yep I've sailed there in those big waves too - and an easy launch/recovery into the flat water in the harbour as well !

SailDad 


Another vote for Shoreham, but then I would, wouldn't I Smile. One of our members is a fab photographer, and turns out for opens or if there is the prospect of some great photos to be had. Search for Warwickpics for examples.
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rodney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 10:26am

Originally posted by RS400atC

If it doesn't figure strongly in the winter handicap opens, no amount of youtube will sell it.
But what it really needs is an open circuit, it's a big purchase for something that's only going to race on PY.
Forget Garda, let's see some decent results on the South Coast.
Can iCon cut it with the Merlins when the Force 5 is against the tide?
I can't see it being as much fun as a 400 on a breezy day.

Anyway, this thread's been running for years now, must be time for the armchair pundits to adopt a new 'class'?

Although you can expect to see Icons at a number of winter handicap events the great thing about the Icon is that everyone who has tried one loves it  Smile  That's what sells boats!

There will soon be an open circuit but not just restricted to the UK but also at many European venues.

Don't worry I am sure that you will see the Icons delivering some good results everywhere including the South Coast Wink  

I think Merlins are great boats but, given the turn of speed and acceleration of the Icon I would be most surprised if they don't give them a good run for their money!

That's in your imagination and the only way to get over what you can't see is to try one  Wink

Over the years I have seen too many people putting boats on the market when they are not yet perfect.  I am glad that Mike has taken the amount of care and time to develop the Icon into such a fantastic racing machine.   I have seen many potentially great boats end up as just mundane, or worse, useless as a result of lack of care in getting insignificant things like rigs right and that's not the case with the Icon.  It's unfortunate that the transfer of production to Devoti happened in an Olympic year when a significant amount of resource was committed to the Finn class.  All of the Finns at the Olympics were Devoti and the demands on resources was considerable.  Devoti have now allocated significant resources to the production and marketing of the Icon on mainland Europe.  Mike and I will be arranging test events of the Icon over the next few months going forward.

This is not a boat for the armchair sailor (although, of course, they are welcome) but it is actually a great performance boat for all enthusiastic sailors at all levels.  Even the top flight sailors who have tried the Icon have been impressed with its performance, balance and handling.

On second thoughts perhaps you best not try one or you might want to buy one and that would never do  LOL.

BTW, the price of a new Icon is modest when compared with most other similar two handed classes. Even better, with the current introductory offer!
Rodney Cobb
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Peaky

A little different, or a little better?


I think that's the core of it.

'Better' is always hard to define, the boat that's better today might not shine in next week's weather.

It might be nice to have a 'better' carbon rig on the RS400, but you trade that against the better racing an established fleet gives you.

From my limited experience of Shoreham, iCon could be very, very wet there due to its low freeboard. It's a lovely place to sail on a sunny day but the sea is not flat. Some very good Merlins there for a comparison too. It would be interesting to see how the modern rig of the iCon compares with the adjustability of a raking Merlin rig across the spectrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 10:56am
Originally posted by rodney

.......
On second thoughts perhaps you best not try one or you might want to buy one and that would never do  LOL.

BTW, the price of a new Icon is modest when compared with most other similar two handed classes. Even better, with the current introductory offer!


One of my recurring 'new year's resolutions' is to road test more motorbikes and sail more different boats. I might well blag a go in an iCon, but I'm torn between not being naturally an early adopter and thinking there must be a new boat in the pipeline somewhere that has the appealing features of iCon, a spinnaker and more opportunities for quality level racing. I know I'm getting old, but I want my next boat to be faster than the current one, even if I've dropped that criterion for the bikes, where comfort and practicality are no longer joke words.
I'd need to try it in a puffy F5, when the 400 starts to feel like hard work upwind for us aging unfit people. And also in F1 when some boats keep going over the tide and some don't. I'm told I should try a Dragon!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 11:00am
I think people need to experience the Icon and as has been said, this thread is long on armchair iconites, including me. I thought it a great idea and was lucky enough to try it without having to part with my Finn first, but after trying the Icon last weekend in really awful gusty and weedy conditions I was and am pretty much certain that it is a brilliant boat delivering on its design concept. It is in no way a compromise, it has been kept faithful to its origins, which is what I had hoped for, I am certain that a boat that shone in difficult conditions will just get better as we move forwards. It will be difficult for me to acclimatise to such a different boat, I am looking forward to the journey, which is bad news for my Finn!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 11:22am
Originally posted by rodney

  Smile  That's what sells boats!

Maybe in small numbers, but what really sells boats to the demographic the icon is aimed at is established fleets, other people to sail it against on a friendly traveller circuit and a reduced risk in the cost of ownership.  And there's the chicken and egg debate that cycled around this forum and sailing club bars for as long as I can remember.   

My advice for you guys would be to concentrate developing fleets in selected clubs, as in my opinion, travelling is becoming less and less viable as fuel prices increases, household budgets are squeezed and in general, people seem to have less free time for selfish pursuits than they used to.   This seems to be the approach the Alto seems to be taking in the Medway.  It's definitely where the RS100 has morphed to with good fleets at Datchet, Parkstone, Hayling, Weirwood, Chelmarsh etc, (despite growing numbers the open attendance doesn't seem that much better than when there were only 1/3 of the boats in active circulation) and you'd be mad not to sail a Musto Skiff at one of the key clubs where there is fleet support, hey Neptune? 

There are loads of boats I would enjoy sailing, but the simple fact is, why would anyone spend £5-15k on something they can only race on handicap?  I guess there's enough clubs which only offer handicap racing, (how sad for the SPORT of sailboat racing) but then how many of their members are typically willing to pay new build premium + 20% VAT?  Maybe a few... those who would otherwise buy a lipstick boat when nanna pops her clogs.  

Okay you're argument is that they're great fun to sail.  It certainly looks like it is in the videos, but is this really enough?  I 'get it' for really high end toys- like the Moth or Musto Skiff, quite frankly I enjoyed blasting around in my musto and gradually improving far more than racing it around the cans; but can you really get much out of 'freeriding' a moderate performance boat when all your club mates are racing each other in something arguable a bit older, crapper and even possibly made of wood?  I guess the concept is more attractive as a double-hander or with something a little more imaginative like a 100 or D1, but the truth is, if there's no sailing for it then you're a brave man (or a fool) to spend money on it and assume other people will dump their fleet boats to join you- especially in this economic climate.

And this is going to sound very Grumpfesque.... but in other industries you may well find products are given at sub-market rate prices to early adopters to help them establish themselves against incumbent competition.  Worth a thought maybe? 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 11:55am
Good points, but where the established fleet is a Solo (ugh! sorry but....) you might as well sail what you want, Maybe for some with rugby battered bodies an Icon could be a 'high end toy', why not, it's fun and we really are lacking a lot of that in my clubs racing (don't get me and a third of the club membership started on that one or we really will have a dismal thread).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Thunder Road

Good points, but where the established fleet is a Solo (ugh! sorry but....) you might as well sail what you want.

LOL each to his own n' all, but after 18 months away from racing dinghies I come to completely the other conclusion and will probably have a Solo on the water next year.

Although to be fair, the only singlehanded fleets around any of my local clubs are Lasers and Solos, which is a no choice option at 95-100kg, even then I'll be grossly over the optimum for inland sailing.  But if I could get class racing in something a little more lively, or weight tolerant, I would welcome the dilemma of switching clubs.  I need a time machine.... 50 odd Finns at my club back in the day.    


Edited by pondmonkey - 04 Sep 12 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by rodney

  Smile  That's what sells boats!

And this is going to sound very Grumpfesque.... but in other industries you may well find products are given at sub-market rate prices to early adopters to help them establish themselves against incumbent competition.  Worth a thought maybe? 

James I think that you must have missed this 'BTW, the price of a new Icon is modest when compared with most other similar two handed classes. Even better, with the current introductory offer!'

The 'current introductory offer' is 'at sub-market rate prices to early adopters'.  First 3 Icons at any club will be at the special offer and I have to say it really is at a sub-market price.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 12 at 12:13pm
As I am sure you will have gathered I am at a highly political club and one may think differently if that particular fleet was a little more welcoming?! Enjoy your new craft.
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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