Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Sailing Instructions interpretation... |
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Agreed Gordon - meant to say that earlier.
I did an appeal (similar wrongly applied out of time issue) as a youngster, with similar pressures. Didn't benefit me...but changed the Nats result, and I am proud that I did it. It changed my approach to and understanding of the rules. BTW 20 minutes of coming ashore is not long. If SIs said that I think I would have waterproof paper and a pencil in my BA, and write it before coming ashore! Certainly the same in plastic bag on the boat. To me 20 minutes smacks of comedy event management.
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Strawberry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Jun 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1337 |
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63.1 Requirement for a Hearing A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing, except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 67, 69, A5 and P2. A decision on redress shall not be made without a hearing. The protest committee shall hear all protests and requests for redress that have been delivered to the race office unless it allows a protest or request to be withdrawn. A5 SCORES DETERMINED BY THE RACE COMMITTEE A boat that did not start, comply with rule 30.2 or 30.3, or finish, or that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) or retires after finishing, shall be scored accordingly by the race committee without a hearing. Only the protest committee may take other scoring actions that worsen a boat’s score. RYA 1989/7 When a race committee believes that a boat has broken a sailing instruction, it cannot disqualify her without a hearing or deem her to have retired. The race or protest committee must first lodge a protest against her, within the time limit for doing so, and a hearing must then be called. RYA 1989/8 A race committee is not allowed to disqualify a boat without a hearing, except under the Black Flag rule. A race committee is not allowed to score a boat DNF for failing to sail the course if she complies with the definitions Start and Finish. A protest is needed. RYA 2006/8 Unless otherwise specified in the sailing instructions, a race committee has no power to disqualify a boat without a hearing, or score her DNF if she finishes, if it believes she has not sailed the course. Instead it must protest her within the protest time limit. |
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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry
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Strawberry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Jun 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1337 |
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Basically, if the race committee think you didn't sail the correct course it is their responsibility to protest the competitor.
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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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No, it is not the responsibility of the race committee to protest a boat.
CASE 39 Sportsmanship and the Rules Rule 60.2(a), Right to Protest;
Right to Request Redress or Rule 69 Action Except when it receives a
report of a breach of a class rule or of rule 43 from an equipment inspector or
a measurer for an event, a race committee is not required to protest a boat.
The primary responsibility for enforcing the rules lies with the competitor. |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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That's what the rulebook says. A party has the right to a hearing.
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Gordon
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Brass - The RC is not required to protest, but they cannot take action without a protest except in very limited circumstances.
As you rightly point out the PRIMARY responsibilty for enforcing the rules iswith the competitor. This does not mean that race officials have NO responsibility. There are circumstances in which a race official may protest. Which is why publishing clear policy of the circumstances in which a RC or PC will consider protesting makes things clearer for everyone. |
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Gordon
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), you can lodge a protest in that time frame, and fill in the details later...
No need to hit the shore with a complete dossier prepared!
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Agreed Andy - but I would be able to write those essential details down when afloat. Because it is all too easy to use up 20 minutes securing the boat on the trolley, dropping sails, pulling up the beach and then walking to the Club.
And some clubs still have a shocking attitude/understanding of their responsibilities to a competitor. Having gone back to the OP here the bold call would have been to go ashore without sailing the extra lap, and then redress if scored DNF/DNC. Easy to say with hindsight. But there are far too many clubs which don't recognise that the RC can only DSQ for not failing to start or finish correctly (and that is the action of finsihing, not sailing the wrong course.
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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My understanding is that in these variable lap-counting formats there is usually a SI that permits the race committee to determine the score/number of laps and changes rule rule A5.
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Here is an example of a note to competitors regarding Jury policy. As used at some ISAF events:
Sailing is essentially a self-policing sport. The jury expect that boats will take a penalty promptly when appropriate. The primary responsibility for protesting breaches of the rules is with the competitors, not the jury. However, in addition to taking action in accordance with Appendix P, the jury may lodge protests in accordance with RRS 60.3.
The jury will not usually protest for a breach of a rule of Part 2 or rule 31 unless they observe an apparent breach of good sportsmanship (RRS 2). Examples of such breaches are: deliberate breach of the rules without taking a penalty and gaining an advantage. failing to take a penalty after knowingly touching a mark with no justification for exoneration. intimidating other boats – often evidenced by unnecessary shouting or foul language. team tactics – sailing to benefit another boat to the detriment of your own position. reckless sailing – sailing that results in or is likely to result in damage or injury. My advice to Sargesail - be totally without mercy. Everytime the RC disqualifies a boat, except as provided for in rule A5, redress should be requested, and if refused an appeal made. Gordon |
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Gordon
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