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RTIR 12 - Cancelled Classes
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RTIR 12 - Cancelled Classes
    Posted: 03 Jul 12 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Smithy

..... What got on my wick was the way that some of those sportsboats chose to carry out their "sail round" by starting, right on the line and at the favoured end, right on the gun, clearly impeding those who WERE racing and in fact on being asked (politely) to keep clear, just ignoring the hail. And then continuing to impede others up the subsequent beat

.....


Extract from the LNTM:
"""
In order to separate the competitors from any commercial traffic movements intending to pass through the Central Solent, or bound to or from the Port of Southampton, during the starting period, Masters of vessels not directly involved in the event are to arrange to be clear of the start area by 0630hrs and are not to enter the start area until after 0900hrs or when the bulk of competitors have cleared the area."""

So the non racing craft were in fact breaking the law by being in the starting area.....
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furtive View Drop Down
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Posts: 188 		Post Options Post Options   Quote furtive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 12 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by RS400atC



Extract from the LNTM:
"""
In order to separate the competitors from any commercial traffic movements intending to pass through the Central Solent, or bound to or from the Port of Southampton, during the starting period, Masters of vessels not directly involved in the event are to arrange to be clear of the start area by 0630hrs and are not to enter the start area until after 0900hrs or when the bulk of competitors have cleared the area."""

So the non racing craft were in fact breaking the law by being in the starting area.....



I think the key words here may be commercial traffic...
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Smithy View Drop Down
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Posts: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Smithy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 12 at 12:16am

Well you could try the later paragraph from the LNTM:

"8. All spectator craft not taking part in the race are to keep well clear of the start area or are to proceed to one of the designated holding areas, as depicted on Chartlet 1, and keep clear of the Main Navigational Channel"
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 12 at 8:37am
Neither of those clauses really fits, though, does it? The classes are involved in the race - they are fully paid up entries, so the one about masters of vessels is of no account, and the spectator one doesn't fit either, though it is closer.

Just a general sense of fair play would appear to be enough, or should be.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 12 at 1:42pm
Having read the report from The Firebird skipper he "started" even though his class was cancelled. His reasoning was that he could not hear the instructions over his VHF and I guess this was the same for many of the sail arounds.
 
I small sportsboat or multi can be a very noisy place in a F5/6 and you will be concentrating on your start and watching for other boats.
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by gbr940

Just to clarify:
 
The J/80 has an SSS Base Value of 12. The Notice of Race for both the IRC Classes and the ISCRS Classes set a minimum SSS Base Value of 8. Futhermore, the J/80 is certified for Design Category B of the "EU Recreational Craft Directive" which states that qualifying boats are designed for waves up to 13 feet high with winds to 41 knots, or conditions which may be encountered on offshore voyages of sufficient length or on coasts where shelter may not always be immediately available. There was no suggestion in the forecast conditions for last Saturday that conditions as extreme as that would be experienced.


I've sailed a sport boat not that dissimilar to a J80 in breeze steadily in the mid-30s and making progress upwind wasn't easy. I've sailed J80s a few times and frankly, the thought of skippering one in 13 foot waves and 41 knots of breeze isn't appealing, no matter what the RCD might have to say.

However in the conditions prevailing on June 30th, I don't think a well-sailed J80 would have too many problems. Having skippered and crewed the RTIR a number of times on sports boats, I was extremely surprised it was cancelled for the class.
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

That would concur with the 30 knot gusts we got at Hayling then.


I was on the water at Hayling and I'm afraid that's a wee exaggeration. Chimet showed just shy of 28 knots once, at 0635. J80s would have been arriving at the nastiest bit at St Cats perhaps 3 hours after the start i.e. around 1000 and by then gusts were around 20-23. Dinghy-windy but not really keelboat-windy.


Edited by blueboy - 09 Jul 12 at 5:35pm
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 9:01pm
Well I'm glad I couldn't take up the offer to do the race on a J80, because I was flying to Scotland to take a boat from Wick to Ullapool round Muckle Flugga.  Because this decision would have made my blood boil......

Because the J80 is so very different from the open cockpit sports boats, and so much more seaworthy than the 1/4 tonners.

I wonder if this was a bad decision made on accurate information, or a sensible decison made on bad information/understanding.  Hard to understand anyone who knows the J80 making the call to abandon them and let 1/4 tonners race. 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Hard to understand anyone who knows the J80 making the call to abandon them and let 1/4 tonners race. 

Seems easy enough to understand to me if the Quarter Tonners are Category 4 qualified and the J80s are not, as seems to be the case. Don't the the Cat 4 boats have a variety of extra heavy weather gear the others don't have?

Edited by JimC - 09 Jul 12 at 9:49pm
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 12 at 10:02pm
Well it can be, and many are Cat 4 rated.  As shown a few posts back it seems it may have been caused by misnaming the J80 a dayboat!
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