Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
V Twin |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Jun 12 at 9:32am |
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The lighter hull could then have less sail area to drive it, and if the hullform was more easily driven, you could loose the bowsprit and kite and save both the weight of it and structural weight - oh, don't you end up with the Icon?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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oh, don't you end up with the Icon?
.... not what we set out to do but the general logic is exactly right and how the idea developed. In terms of the concept you can get into a virtuous circle where you simply do not need a very powerful rig to drive a heavier and increasingly complex overall package. Keep it light, keep it simple and go for very high efficiency in terms of rig and hull - it also means that you can offer a relatively advanced all carbon rig at a very attractive overall cost ... but Icon was/is primarily aimed at the 2 sail niche which had not been pursued much for 35 years ... since that other NS derivative pointed the way in the 70's - and that boat was the Tasar. Mike L. (Cirrus Raceboats) |
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fab100 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
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Come on GRF, you've had more than enough time to stick some flowery-pattered fablon over the V-twin ding and get back on the water.
So what's happening; I hope you've not consigned the poor old girl to the nettles already
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Well it may have been a long passage of time, but I've not really been here much, I've been a travelling fool this last few weeks, what with meetings in the States, France and Germany, a different country each week for the last three weeks.
She's laying in my drive looking a tad forlorn and I have to make a decision do it try or should i get her down to someone proper like Andy @ Bloodaxe for example. I've kind of formed a plan as to what's needed, but I want to do t and lose some hull weight, that will involve carbon and expense...
Edited by G.R.F. - 20 Jun 12 at 6:47pm |
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haroosh ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 521 |
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I thought Andy only worked on fast boats!!!
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Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8) |
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johnreekie1980 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 11 Jun 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 91 |
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GRF claims that the electricity is free which interested me greatly as an engineer as I am not aware of any truly free source of electricity available on the planet. Further reading on this matter indicates that the Bonneville Hydro Electric Plant is run by a not for profit organisation called the BPA. The BPA markets the electricity to the market at a price which allows it to break even. So unless all the operators, maintainers and materials providers are working for free then it is highly unlikely the electricity is free. Wikipedia and common sense could be wrong however I doubt it very much. We are also forgetting that the dam was built by the army and therefore the governments expense which would also not be free. Nothing in life is free and GRF would do well to remember this.
Credibility is lost when posting wrong facts on the internet.
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Well the dam was built some time ago so the costs will long since have been amortised, this however is largely irrelevant, since as far as the factory is concerned, being a local employer adjacent to the dam their electricity is supplied to them free of charge. You can be Peter Pedant about the relative merits and cost of Hydro Electricity and the cost of water as much as you wish, but in this case, they are gifted their power as part of a community effort afaik.. There does that explain it better? Now as far as what is free in life I could give you a list, starting with the air we breath, the conversations we have with one another and the information and entertainment you receive here for example.. There's plenty of stuff free in life if you look. So yes I agree, credibility is lost when you post wrong facts on the internet.
Edited by G.R.F. - 21 Jun 12 at 9:45am |
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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I think we surmise that the point GRF is making is that the world moves on, without or without sailboat technology coming with it. 21st century ideals of leaner, greener, lighter, faster... all common place in progressive technology arenas, but not so prevalent in mainstream dinghy development.
Now there are lots of easy examples to contradict an assumption that the world of yacht design doesn't move with the times. Just look at C-Class Cats, Foiling Moths and the asymmetric singlehanders many would have said were 'unsailable' 20 years ago. There are even examples where the 'establishment' is so forward thinking that we (well some of us) can be super critical... FO big kite race boards that are now in the Olympics from 2016 (totally untested without even an established global race programme) and what about the AC being a multihull event now (shocking behaviour for match race purists, never mind the H&S risk those AC72s are going to present) But these are all isolated examples of 'progress' which do nothing but make the sport appear elitist, or at the very least 'niche'- Grumpf's criticism focuses on the mainstream lack of progress at club and circuit level. Baseline amateur sailing for joe and jennie bloggs.... it hasn't moved on, bar some lipstick development to manipulate the grossly flawed PY system most clubs seem intent on offering, but do little to implement properly. And yes, it arguably lacks appeal to a future generation and it's easy to see why when you buy a 'cool boat' but get penalised by a spreadsheet and rarely get a decent course suitable for 'cool boats'. I have some sympathy with his views on this, but then I can't help but bounce back to the very fundamentals of the sport I grew up with. Dinghy sailing was never considered 'cool' and it will always have its middle-class stereotypes... you can't change the fact that even a modest new boat, like a Laser, is more than a lot of people will spend on a reasonable secondhand car. So you come around to a sense of 'f*ck it'... the strength of dinghy sailing is good class racing and as often pointed out by Chris249, in relatively slower, tactical boats. Ideally this occurs locally and is not 3 hours away on some windguru-jinxed circuit. And to some extent it really doesn't matter what that boat is as long as you pick the class that loosely fits your biometric and economic profile. Okay it might not be 'cool', it might not be inexpensive for young people, it not be that 'attractive' compared to other lifestyle sports... but really people, it never was and is never going to be.
Edited by pondmonkey - 21 Jun 12 at 10:01am |
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I luv Wight ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628 |
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Light boats only perhaps... but I have a saw! |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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