New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: V Twin
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

V Twin

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 129130131132133 142>
Author
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 05 Jun 12 at 11:19pm
Being dismissive of others is sadly a stock in trade for us genii, when face it after how many years, you still haven't managed it yet with one hit I'm closer than anyone to date..
All I have to do is make it lighter and sort out the side tanks and I'm there.

Lets look at the check list
Fast - not yet it's too heavy and the sail is pants, easily curable, but still faster for me in its current state in a breeze than I could achieve in a 100 or similar single hander.
Easy - it's a doddle and only an idiot can tip it over
Suitable for lightwieghts - check
Easy to right - no, but a problem that can be solved.
Light weather - nothing that can't be solved by raising the mid section and stepping the hulls.

Too big? Nothing a diamond cutter can't solve.

I wouldn't write it off just yet.

what it needs is a bit more time and a bit more money chucked at it, two things I'm a tad short of right now, but hey there's no deadline here and maybe I might have changed my mind a bit about what I want now, since I've met lake world and that requires a slightly different design concept and a bunch more money I don't have right now to waste on scatter brain stuff like dinghies. 

Until I figure a better lighter way to build them than relying on the old hat that is the British Boat building scene, the factory I just visited in the states and the kit they have if applied to my problem could do amazing things, it's just time, application and to use stuff like this a market potential is required, meanwhile they'll go on building the next big thing which is wake and SUP boards in hollow carbon and bamboo laminate.
Now if I could have used them to build the twin it would have hit the 35 kgs I wanted, not the bloody close to 100 kgs I probably got from those old school builders that wouldn't even listen when I asked for it, eyes glazed over and said it aint possible when I know it is.

That is the difference and why I dismiss everything that is written in the traditional dinghy building world, I know it can be done yet listen to 'advice' and end up with the same ole same ole.. My Bad for going along with it, next time it'll be different.


Edited by G.R.F. - 05 Jun 12 at 11:23pm
Back to Top
L123456 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 500
Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 12 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

... but why not start the developent by looking at the best existing scows and learning from them, rather than being dismissive of them?
 
 … are you not aware that all that have gone before the great man are morons?
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 12 at 11:30pm
They're not morons, plenty of them cleverer than me, but, they just lack the experience of what is available in the world these days in other sports.

Edited by G.R.F. - 05 Jun 12 at 11:32pm
Back to Top
bferry View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 09
Location: Malta
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 190
Post Options Post Options   Quote bferry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Caveman

Someone mentioned cats as the aswer to this impossible quest. What about those "Heath Robinson" Catapult cats with their inflatable hulls. http://www.catapultcats.com
 
I sniggering when I spotted a guy pumping up his hulls on the beach a few years ago. However, I was later amazed to see just how quick these little boats can go. They look quite easy to handle on the water and easy to transport. I imagine they would also be cheap to build.  
 
 
  
 
Heard these were fast cats but with a bow like that...they're f*@!g ugly in my opinion.


Edited by bferry - 06 Jun 12 at 8:02am
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta
Back to Top
Presuming Ed View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Feb 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 641
Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 8:31am
Most materials development in sailing come from aerospace. 
Back to Top
L123456 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 500
Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 9:02am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Most materials development in sailing come from aerospace. 
 
aerospace ... don't you know they are morons too ... the only area of innovation worth any reference is windsurfing .... even if Chris249 has already debunked the claims made by GRF with FACTS ...
 
Lets face it, GRF has built an utter dog that he still trying to delude a few fanboys that it has legs ... he even believes it himself ... or does he and has he finally realised but is still playing games with some of you on here?
Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143
Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 9:48am
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Most materials development in sailing come from aerospace. 
 
aerospace ... don't you know they are morons too ... the only area of innovation worth any reference is windsurfing .... even if Chris249 has already debunked the claims made by GRF with FACTS ...
 
Lets face it, GRF has built an utter dog that he still trying to delude a few fanboys that it has legs ... he even believes it himself ... or does he and has he finally realised but is still playing games with some of you on here?
 
Oh man, you got the GRF under-the-skin thing bad don't you? yes it's a monstrosity (to some of us) and yes, it's probably never gonna work (in some of our opinions) BUT he hasn't wasted any of OUR money on it, or embarressed US by posting this tosh so we can all have a good grin at him.  Lighten up. 
Back to Top
L123456 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 500
Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 10:20am
Originally posted by getafix

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Most materials development in sailing come from aerospace. 
 
aerospace ... don't you know they are morons too ... the only area of innovation worth any reference is windsurfing .... even if Chris249 has already debunked the claims made by GRF with FACTS ...
 
Lets face it, GRF has built an utter dog that he still trying to delude a few fanboys that it has legs ... he even believes it himself ... or does he and has he finally realised but is still playing games with some of you on here?
 
Oh man, you got the GRF under-the-skin thing bad don't you? yes it's a monstrosity (to some of us) and yes, it's probably never gonna work (in some of our opinions) BUT he hasn't wasted any of OUR money on it, or embarressed US by posting this tosh so we can all have a good grin at him.  Lighten up. 
Had he just gone about his project and shared I would have followed with interest but his continued rubbishing of the dinghy industry and previous designers just gets on my wick ...
 
If you have a vision of doing somthing new/different just get on with it and show us but to spend an equal amount of energy sl*gging off the current offer is just poor form ...
 
When you do rubbish the current you set your self up for a bit of stick when it turns out you were wrong ... if you cant take it don't give it  and don't rely on your fan boys to stick up for you.
Back to Top
Roger View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 04
Location: Somerset
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 524
Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 10:55am

Innovation is a necessity for both sport and industry and thankfully we have people prepared to undertake this in both, but sadly there are many more who try to stifle it or denounce those who undertake it.

 

Innovation happens in 2 ways, the small steps taken for minor improvements and the major leaps some feel are possible and sometimes necessary, often both can lead to the same result, and by the nature of development both can often take the same time too.

Advances in techniques and materials can also allow ideas rejected before to now be possible, so only the fool says "we've tried that before and it doesn't work so we're not doing it again".

 

What GRF has tried to do here is a major leap, he's backed the 100-1 outsider rather than develop something already there, the 2-1 fav. However I'm sure he is old enough and wise enough to realize that with what has been learnt, the next step will shorten the odds of success, only time will tell, and it's quite possible the concept will never work, but unless you try it you'll never know, the laws of physics are what they are, but don't forget our understanding of those laws has changed over the years. I'm not suggesting the V Twin will rewrite the text books, but sometimes things seem to defy the current laws until we understand them better.

 

Do I wish him luck, of course I do.

Would I do it myself, probably not.

It doesn't represent what I want from my sailing, but then again neither does an 80ft maxi or a Topper; but that doesn't mean its not right for some.

 

As I understand it this didn't start as a commercial project, but I'm sure GRF had dreams/visions of 100s of V-Twins sailing off the Kent coast or competing in the 2020 Olympics, and should the boat become viable then who's to say these things can’t happen.

 

Experience has taught me that innovation and the acceptance of change is not necessarily a trait of youth, it's a state of mind, you are either that way inclined or not. I work in an industry where we spend literally billions of dollars in search of the next advance, and it takes sometimes 10,000s of prospects to bring one to market, however the rewards for success are vast, small little tweaks also take place, where the rewards are less, but sometimes necessary to fill the gaps between the giant leaps.

 

Stifle development at your peril, without those who are prepared to take the risks in search of their holy grail then yes we would not have the society we have today, accept that not everything is for you, but also that not everybody is after the same things and that both can live side by side.

Back to Top
haroosh View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 521
Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 12 at 11:46am
I giggle at the idea that we think the V Twin concept has ever been innovative...
Foiling was innovative.
Taking a hybrid between a Vortex, Topper and a Fun boat is not innovative in my opinion. It was just a waste of GRF's money. However it sounds like he had a bit of fun doing it.
Why not if you have the time and money but I would invest in a but more design effort next time....
Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 129130131132133 142>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy