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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Casualty management
    Posted: 18 Jan 12 at 6:48pm
Whilst there is no argument that the accident is horrific it is rare, thankfully. This thread very much reminds me of the discussions soon after the drowning when lots of people went about shouting that knives should be carried by everyone on a boat...appears that shout has quietened now. However it doesnt stop us from reviewing emergency procedures . Lets review then....and I think zippyRN that nothing will change as a result of that. Sailing has its injuries and thankfully injuries such as spinal injuries are rare. If you want details of injuries I believe that all serious injuries have to be reported to the RYA by the club or class so they have an accurate record. 
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ASok View Drop Down
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 12 at 1:22pm

ZippyRN - you seem to have a clear agenda here and I can't understand why. You've not presented any evidence that would suggest that this is a serious issue that we should be concerned by.

Tragic accidents will occur in every sport. Risk needs to be assessed and provisions made to manage them. I just don't believe that the issues are as large as you make them out to be.
 
One accident or a handful of accidents does not form the basis for investing in the prevention methods you have raised.
 
Perhaps you need to write to the RYA and request a grant for funding a study?
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themeaningoflife View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		Post Options Post Options   Quote themeaningoflife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 12 at 1:24pm
Good to hear a positive update about Tess, let's hope she will make it to the Worlds in August as planned!
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kevg View Drop Down
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Posts: 120 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kevg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 12 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by themeaningoflife

Good to hear a positive update about Tess, let's hope she will make it to the Worlds in August as planned!
 
Great news. I hope we have an accident investigation report in due course so we can then learn from this incident.
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 12 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by ASok

ZippyRN - you seem to have a clear agenda here and I can't understand why. You've not presented any evidence that would suggest that this is a serious issue that we should be concerned by.

Tragic accidents will occur in every sport. Risk needs to be assessed and provisions made to manage them. I just don't believe that the issues are as large as you make them out to be.
 
One accident or a handful of accidents does not form the basis for investing in the prevention methods you have raised.
 
Perhaps you need to write to the RYA and request a grant for funding a study?

Do I have a clear agenda ? perhaps you'd like to inform what my clear agenda is ?

we've seen responses that  'it'll never happen'  despite the Incident Tess Lloyd was involved in  and the fact  that there are  others ( admittedly a relatively small number) who have sustained significant head / neck or back injuries through sailing 

it's interesting that the attitude  of

" it'll never happen " 

and 

" rescue crews are only  volunteers , so it doesn't matter  whether they are adequately trained or not as after all they've 'done their best' "

the second one is what has made me 'upset' for want of better term - this attitude is 20  to 30 years  behind the curve , it seems as though all the prosecutions and legal action involving volunteers  providing a service has passed  the sailing community by 

e.g. the  Issues surrounding the 'Tideway Incident' where St John ambulance were prosecuted  under Health and Safety law  despite  the boats being operated by volunteers, in a volunteer lead unit  in a volunteer lead area  and providing services on a voluntary basis ... 

the various  issues surrounding  failure to deliver effective resuscitation provision   at events e.g. Bath Half Marathon which was SJA again ( settled out of court ) and a similar occurence involving the Red Cross at the Great North Run 

the issues i've raised for discussion still fall short of the minimum requirements for other sports - and not just motorsport - though with the speeds achieved by modern skiff type dinghies the enrgy exchange is approaching motorsport  or equestrian levels   with collisions  or 'ejections'  from craft 

the level of lack of understanding shown by people  claiming to be 'expert'  on the subject is also worrying -  exactly how would some of you defend yourselves in court ( be it civil, criminal or Coroner's ) when   there is an adverse incident  , and this incident  known to be serious / life threatening  but has been ignored  becasue we're only amateurs ... 

is this going to take a death and prosecution ? rather than people  starting discussion in the light of Tess' incident - 
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 12 at 9:52am
Zippy all sailing clubs in the UK take their lead from the RYA and what you are saying is not their advice.
 
You mention running events but you quote a very large probably professionally run event. There are loads of running events held every weekend where they donot have this level of support. Then what about all the amatuer football and rugby clubs holding events on public playing fields with no facilities. Everyone of thos relies on the emergency services. That is what we do in sailing with  the only difference in that we need to get the casualty to them in the first instance.
 
People like you who hide behind the threat of lawyers will kill sport.
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ASok View Drop Down
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 12 at 10:17am

ZippyRN - you seem to be very aware of spinal injuries cause and treatment. However, I've joined this discussion because I've got a thing about reference weilding. Those references you threw up earlier advocating the use of spinal boards and rescue provision just don't stack up. However, I recognise that they were a 'quick and dirty' search (to use your words).

Your agenda seems to be avocating the implementation of this additional level of safety provision when evidence doesn't suggest that its required.
 
However, that said I am not an expert. I have to take my lead from the governing body. Just like I do when I play 5-a-side football in the week and when I used to play rugby.
 
Without a hint of sarcasm - I genuinely believe that experts should be approaching the RYA with this if they believe that there is an issue. That way they can investigate, risk assess and provide guidance.
 
Club committees need to take a lead from somewhere. You cannot expect a group of amateur enthusiasts to start advocating this level of provision unless it really is required. Poorly applied safety procedures are worse than lower levels of safety procedures.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 12 at 10:56am
Please do not feed the troll......
 
And remember pretty much evey SC has a clause which states that you sail at your own risk and the club cannot be held liable for death, loss or injury (this is why we have insurance when we sail with large amounts of 3rd party liability).
Paul
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ASok View Drop Down
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 12 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Please do not feed the troll......
 
 
Fair point Clap
 
Where's JimC's cartoon on 'cant come to bed, someone on the internet is wrong' LOL
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Posts: 350 		Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 12 at 12:10pm
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