Handicap racing now pointless?

Originally posted by blaze720 Could I therefore suggest that new classes are made available for a period of time to a couple of recognised and independent helms recognized by RYA technical who could act assessor(s) and who produce an initial figure after testing for themselves.  ‘Their’ numbers are then published and used for the first year or so in some way under RYA technical supervision- allowing a much wider spread of data to be established and certainty for all.   HOWEVER even when given a 'position' based on this figure when racing in handicap events the results of the ‘new’ are recorded separately to classes with an already established and proven (as far as any are !) their 'position' does not make any difference to the results of others behind them. Mike L.

nice ideas, but sadly not going to happen as the RYA approach the whole PY programme from a different point of view.

The PY system is a product for sailing clubs- not classes, not manufacturers, not individual members or race committees. They will only work with the data clubs provide via the returns system (favouring the online returns where possible) and will not work with the information provided by class associations, even if you extended this to offer a class-owned demo boat to an impartial sailor for independent assessment.

having been through the exercise of working on behalf of newly established class to better understand how the manufacturers number dropped so dramatically with the first issue of the official EN, I can assure you the mindset at the RYA is unlikely to change- PY is a product for clubs, if you want to influence the ratings of any given class then there is only one way to do it- race it more at the clubs that bother to return data, ideally via the online returns system. As I understand it, the SJ series doesn't even figure in the quantitive analysis, however I guess the PYAG must look at it for their final deliberations before the Dinghy Exhibition.

http://rs100sailing.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/joint-statement-from-the-rya-rs-racing-re-rs100-pn/

what rogue says above (that the RYA PY system works only for clubs and not sailors more generally, and that they can be inflexible and lack transparency) is one of the main reasons I am not an RYA member

Edited by r2d2 - 11 Jan 12 at 2:23pm

I used to be a member a long time ago - that just lapsed, and I would consider joining again - but the tranparency of the system is a real show stopper for me

Originally posted by Jon711 So Rogue, no easy answer then really..... Jon

Well of course there is... if we dump the 'them and us' crap, we'd actually see the guys running the sailjuice series are actually blokes n' birds just like us lot. We'd also see that they're progressive enough to make changes to the handicaps when considering the local waters and prevailing conditions experienced, something the majority of us would love to happen at our own clubs.

They've applied a conservative approach to new class entrants, which I think is laudable as it maintains the status quo for the majority and doesn't offer the new entrant an easy win to undermine the overall reputation of the event. Do remember it wasn't so long ago that Graham Vials cleaned up at the BM but his result didn't count as foilers weren't technically permitted- this sh*t is a thing of the past and they are much more inclusive now. Perhaps if the minority classes give them such a load of sh*t they'll back track, maybe even restrict the types of boats entered. Do remember a good sailor in a good new boat can still do well irrespective of a conservative handicap... it wasn't so long ago this forum had the kleenex out for Danny Boy and his 'Punk' with its wishbone boom was it?

Perhaps communication could be better about the handicapping adjustments, but to a large extent I agree with Jim, any reduction will be considered punitive and result in time-consuming rounds of questioning and email dialogue.   Why bother.... they've got more patience than I'd have that's for sure.

From a personal point of view, not going to the GGP and Stevie Nicks has been the first time I've actually felt like I'm missing out from not dinghy sailing currently- and to be honest, the fact that they are locally adjusting, running progressive courses and opening up the racing to all sorts of classes only makes that feeling stronger. If you could get that quality of sailing in a club race, I sh*t-you-not sailing would be a truly awesome sport.

Edited by rogue - 11 Jan 12 at 2:34pm

Rogue,

I see your point, but feel like I want to disagree. Just can not think of a reason! .

My gut feel is just that playing around with handicaps, with no justification, and no backup evidence to do so, is a very slippery slope, and one we should not be embarking on. If plod stopped you in your car, claiming you were doing 100mph, when you dashboard was showing 50mph, you would ask for evidence... That is all that is being asked for here...

Jon