New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Grafham Grand Prix
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Grafham Grand Prix
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1718192021 22>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
CharlieW505 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 17 Oct 11
Location: Woking, Surrey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CharlieW505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grafham Grand Prix
    Posted: 04 Jan 12 at 4:29pm
Doug H,
 
Interesting you mention fair handicaps.  I note that the f/ball sailors had both 1st and last places in the same race..!!  That hints at good handicapping.  The 505's too had a good spread (just 2 boats, but both competitive crews a couple of minutes apart).
 
Actually the results for the mid-handicap (race 1) suggest that it was very close, and therefore well handicapped.  1 minute 10 seconds covered 3-13th places.  Race 2 looks like it spread out a bit more - as it was longer.  Perhaps the 505 (Tim Rush) got clear on the 1st beat?
 
In any case, impressive stuff on the PY's.
 
 
C
 
I wonder why these numbers are so impossible for the RYA to get to.  Is it because the circuit sailors are not substantially part of the return.............
 
 
 
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 12 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by CharlieW505

 
I wonder why these numbers are so impossible for the RYA to get to.  Is it because the circuit sailors are not substantially part of the return.............
 
 
I think you have hit the nail on the head Jim.
 
For every well sorted ciruit boat in classes like the Fireball there are potentially many more boats used by club guys just for sh*ts and giggles when they race.
 
The 'modern' Fireball with a wide bow is (reputedly) around a minute or 2 faster than the 'classic' narrow boat boats. Bear in mind 'wide' bow boats only appeared at around hull number 14,000 there are still (potentially) a lot more 'slower' boats out there generating results for the PY system.
 
When a class evolves this does make it difficult and can give a class the (in)famous bandit status for several years while the PY catches up (case in point, everyones favourite bandit the Phantom).
 
But we have been here so many times recently I don;t think we need to go there again...plus the Phantom sailors are big guys and a little scary!
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
CharlieW505 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 17 Oct 11
Location: Woking, Surrey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CharlieW505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 12 at 5:39pm
it's Charlie (BTW).  Thanks for the compliment anyhow!
 
Handicaps just look like they are working better on these numbers - acknowledging that different things are being referenced within these numbers.
 
Still looks as if a couple of classes could be brought into line (Ospreys for example - not sure if they could have done much better on handicap).  However small bumps every year will make it closer over 4/5 years me-thinks.
 
 
 
C
Back to Top
Olly4088 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 424 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Olly4088 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 12 at 6:43pm
Anyone know who the guy with the camera was out there? I know that on the report there is a few from a David Papworth just wondered if they available to view publicly?
Phantom 1298
Back to Top
Burt View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 04 Jan 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Burt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 12 at 10:29pm
I am still dubious about set handicaps for 3  boats. 
1. laser
2. laser radial
4. solo

I sailed an ok at grafham gp but while i can match or beat a laser upwind i could never go faster then it downwind so when i reach the top mark just ahead they have over taken me by the end of the first reach. this is doubled to trebled by the time we reach the leeward mark so i am too far away to make any impact upwind (assuming they dont make any silly mistakes and i dont get the luckiest shift in the world).

so how i am still ment to beat them on the water? if they sailed off a handicap of 1090 to 1100 it may be a fair race and radials should be closer to if not the same as the handicap the ok sails from at 1114 perhaps some where near, 1118 maybe as i can beat them on the water but not by 1 and a half minutes and then the solo is ridiculous 1163! at 1143 and it might just turn into a close race as they were finishing with the radials just behind me.

I was 1 of 4 oks racing and i was the only one who managed to get into the top half of the fleet. i finished 16th overall which isn't even top quater.
 
Back to Top
giraffe View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 10 May 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 148 		Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:48pm
As a younger man I occasionally raced on shandicrap.

As an angry young man the vagaries and imperfections of the system often set me off. As I grew old and bitter I came to accept that shandicrap is never really going to work and it’s a mechanism to allow you to get out on the water when class racing is not available.

Before you go on the water on a given day you know which classes have an advantage in the conditions, and when the course is set you know who it favours. That’s life.

The crap people still don’t tend to win, and the good ones do when the weather and course favour them over the other good guys who’s boats don’t fit the day so well.

If you ever think it’s going to be ‘right’ you’re always going to be angry. The only thing you can do is either get over it or stop doing it.

I'm in the get over it camp.
Back to Top
Andymac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Apr 07
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 11:22pm
That could just as easily have been me saying that!
Back to Top
SamM View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SamM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 12 at 6:54am
Originally posted by CharlieW505

Doug H,
 
Interesting you mention fair handicaps.  I note that the f/ball sailors had both 1st and last places in the same race..!!  That hints at good handicapping.  The 505's too had a good spread (just 2 boats, but both competitive crews a couple of minutes apart).
 
Actually the results for the mid-handicap (race 1) suggest that it was very close, and therefore well handicapped.  1 minute 10 seconds covered 3-13th places.  Race 2 looks like it spread out a bit more - as it was longer.  Perhaps the 505 (Tim Rush) got clear on the 1st beat?
 
In any case, impressive stuff on the PY's.
 
 
C
 
I wonder why these numbers are so impossible for the RYA to get to.  Is it because the circuit sailors are not substantially part of the return.............
 
 
 

We (Fireballs) weren't far behind Tim on the first beat, but he was able to get away down the run because the 2nd race paid to high wire (sail the angles) downwind and stay in the narrow wind bands. There should have been enough breeze for the Fireballs to be able to do it too, but it wasn't paying - I think because you could sail out of the narrow bands of wind too quickly, and to stay in them would have required a lot of gybes (and therefore be slow). Tim was certainly sailing very well though and looked impressive as he was sailing away from us...

Your point about the Ospreys is interesting - when we lined up against them directly upwind they were sailing a lot higher and faster than us and we were going broadly the same speed downwind. Their handicap is a bit faster than ours, but I think the main reason we stayed ahead was that we started a bit better and got the shifts right a bit more. I don't know if Ospreys are harder to tack than Fireballs and if that makes a difference.

Does anyone have a link to the corrected times yet? Would be interesting to see
Back to Top
Neal_g View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 323 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 12 at 7:50am
there was me thinking it was your super crew sam.
fireball weather weather for the BM too show your stuff.
 
as for corrected times if you click on r1 or r2  they are blue so hyperlinks they take you to corrected times
(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com
Back to Top
Dan MPS View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dan MPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 12 at 6:20pm
The corrected times are all posted on the grafham site now.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1718192021 22>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy