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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 12:43pm

If you draw comparrisons to football, Wayne Rooney who actually stamped on the back of a players leg and got a 4 game international ban had his Ban reduced by UEFA.  This is in front of Millions of people including children, he is massively in the public eye.  He is a role model to millions of more children the Ben Ainsle could dream of, as mentioned earlier this is not the first time he has done something violent and mindless but yet he only recieves a couple of match ban.  Ben was right to be frustrated and if this is going to be a problem for the Olympics surely its better that it gets dealt with now and Press boats have to be kept at reasonable distance.

 
As mentioned earlier i beleive this is the first time we have ever seen a flustered Ainsle, surely he deserves a wrning prior to a Ban??

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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 1:15pm
How dare the media intrude?  Easily, because without them stars like Ben wouldn't get sponsorship, races like the VOR wouldn't tale place, and awful lot of products wouldn't get developed because the sponsors wouldn't be there to fund such development.  Ben has the lifestyle he enjoys because of madia presenc, and he knows it.

I'm not saying I want him banned, I'm saying I doubt the matter will end here.  I'm not saying the media boats are right to intrude on the race course but, they do have to have a presence because they are now, like it or not, crucial to the sport.  Nearly everyone on this forum will watch and enjoy youtube or other video clips courtesy of media intrusion; you can't have your cake and eat it!

Unfortunately - and somewhat stupidly, as Sparky said - ISAF and the Australian sailing authorities chose to make this a test ground for the provision of tv coverage for such events, presumably ready for next year, and clearly their experiment has failed in spectacular fashion. 
the same, but different...

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Posts: 154 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Strangler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 1:37pm

TV is GOD

An illustration from 2007 - At the first

Euro Olympic event this year Race Officers were

under instruction to reduce the number of general

recalls to allow TV to keep to their schedule. This

led to some ludicrous unrecalled starts with some

boats as much as 40 metres over. [Scuttlebutt]
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by winging it

Much as I sympathsie with Ben I feel he will - and should - take further punishment for this.  No matter what the situation, or who you are, you can't just climb into someone else's boat and give them a fairly robust piece of your mind.  It's just not acceptable. 

The RYA and his sponsors have made Ben the 'poster boy' of the dinghy sailing world, and 100s of kids up and down the country will have his picture on their wall.  These kids will know what he has done and they need to see action taken against him, as it would be against any other sailor, and rightly so.

What I notice from my morning's perusal of facebook over my ready brek, is how many of my young sailing friends have instantly befriended Giles Scott.  I wonder if Ben is now yesterday's man? 


wrong, wrong, wrong

Ben has apologised
Press boat personel have apologised
Ben's been binned from the racing & event
He's been interviewed and admitted he was wrong and said sorry

Case closed.

Why should he get punished some more? what does that achieve?

He's not a gov't minister for sport or some kind of politician who should resign "on principle" and his actions post this event are an example; be contrite, apologise, then shut up.  There's many <dozens> of sports people who could learn a great deal from that!

it bugs me (can't you tell) when we "witch hunt" people in this country for making mistakes we forgive of others all too easily.... just a personal opinion mind you!
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Any ISAF involvement would be interesting and is bound to lead to further scuttlebutt in the press.  The Secretary-General of ISAF is Jerome Pels, who just happens to be Ben's brother-in-law...
I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right.

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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Strangler

TV is GOD

An illustration from 2007 - At the first

Euro Olympic event this year Race Officers were

under instruction to reduce the number of general

recalls to allow TV to keep to their schedule. This

led to some ludicrous unrecalled starts with some

boats as much as 40 metres over. [Scuttlebutt]



Absolutely right.  Why was Bolt chucked out of the 100m world champs?  Because he was blamed for his one false start.  Why are they only given one false start?  Because tv complained about the number of starts they may have messing with their schedules.
the same, but different...

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Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by winging it

How dare the media intrude?  Easily, because without them stars like Ben wouldn't get sponsorship, races like the VOR wouldn't tale place, and awful lot of products wouldn't get developed because the sponsors wouldn't be there to fund such development.  Ben has the lifestyle he enjoys because of madia presenc, and he knows it.

I'm not saying I want him banned, I'm saying I doubt the matter will end here.  I'm not saying the media boats are right to intrude on the race course but, they do have to have a presence because they are now, like it or not, crucial to the sport.  Nearly everyone on this forum will watch and enjoy youtube or other video clips courtesy of media intrusion; you can't have your cake and eat it!

Unfortunately - and somewhat stupidly, as Sparky said - ISAF and the Australian sailing authorities chose to make this a test ground for the provision of tv coverage for such events, presumably ready for next year, and clearly their experiment has failed in spectacular fashion. 
 
 
Sorry but just can't agree with much you say.....
 
In the majority of other sports TV cameras and media are banned from the field of play, the reason being that the result of the contest must be exactly the same whether the cameras were there or not, if the result of the event was different because the media interfered then we should revisit our priorities.
 
The obsession seems to be with close up, get in there with them coverage, something that actually spoils the sailing in my view (dinghy sailing for sure), the best shots are usually from the air and show several boats not just one. Sailors watching can then judge positions and tactics being employed far better, occasional closer shots of boats rounding marks etc can break this up, they of course usually come from static boats to windward or leward of the course.
 
I would also say that I am not privvy to the arrangements made with Ben's sponsors or anybody elses for that matter, do the sponsors actually expect high level TV coverage to the non sailor? I doubt that very much (but they got it over the weekend), they probably expect a little to the sailing public, and the use of their athlete in the printed press, internet adverts and for the athlete to carry out a set amount of PR appearances each year.
Remember there will be no sponsors logo's at the Olympic Event, infact no mention of sponsors at all.
 
It is quite clear from the video/TV coverage of the race that along the last leg the rib was within a couple of boatlengths max of the lead boat, you can also see how he was benefiting from the wake, unfortunatly I have not yet seen how this impacted on Ben Ainslie (there may not even be coverage of this).
 
To sum up a few thoughts...
 
BA did wrong, he should not have reacted as he did.
He has been punished, and may well be punished further.
The media/TV boat was well out of order.
If the media/TV boat was not breaking any rules or guidance given then the authorities should take the responsibility.
If the media/TV boat was breaking the rules then the driver and the producer should be sanctioned.
 
Overall its a bit of a sorry tale that I am sure everybody involved in now wishes hadn't happened, but as it did, should be dealt with by those in posession of the full facts, I hate lynch mobs.
I also doubt there has been a similar situation that ISAF have had to deal with before, so trying to predict any outcome is purely speculative.
 
 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by getafix

Why should he get punished some more? what does that achieve?

pour envourager les autres?
In the general scheme of things you do not get a second chance if you strike another competitor or official. You get a two year ban the first time. And to my mind that's a good thing. Every sailor should know that.

In this case mitigating circumstances are very great provocation and that he seems to have managed to refrain from throwing punches. I'm glad I don't have to adjudicate on this one. He probably doesn't deserve a full two year ban, but the games are only a few months away.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 3:20pm
In athletics camera men are all over the field of play.  The close up shots you see pre a 100m start are filmed about one foot away from the athlete's face until they are on their marks.

"I would also say that I am not privvy to the arrangements made with Ben's sponsors or anybody elses for that matter, do the sponsors actually expect high level TV coverage to the non sailor? I doubt that very much (but they got it over the weekend), they probably expect a little to the sailing public, and the use of their athlete in the printed press, internet adverts and for the athlete to carry out a set amount of PR appearances each year."

Of course they expect tv coverage, and any other kind of coverage.  They won't be shelling out their hard earned cash purely out of the goodness of their hearts; they expect/demand a return.

"Remember there will be no sponsors logo's at the Olympic Event, infact no mention of sponsors at all." 

True in that the only logos the athletes can display will be those of their kit maker, but otherwise the whole event will e full of logos and advertising.  Famous athletes are already advertising their sponsors role in supporting the games eg Jessica Ennis and BP, and they will continue to do so throughout the Games, primarily on tv.

And yes Jim, I agree.
the same, but different...

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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 11 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by JimC

... he seems to have managed to refrain from throwing punches.


How do you know that;  have you seen any video?

In the photo sequence here http://www.sailingpix.dk/image/I00002vfUZc3w4Hw he clearly "lays hands" on the driver & the guy in the bow and looking at the photo sequence it looks like he's chinned the guy in the bow with a nice left cross ... of course you can't really tell from the still but that is how it looks.

If he just wanted words that could have been done from his own boat.

I suspect ISAF are playing it down as they don't want to be examined for the intrusion of the media boat ...
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