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Blaze vs Laser Comparison
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 11:56am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by kurio99

...a 25 year advantage in sailing science, 

Ah well, that's the bit that's confusing you. For whatever my opinion is worth the Laser has a better hull shape.

DEFINE: "better"

Not disagreeing with you but having sailed them both I would just say they are different boats for different types of sailing and sailor. Nothing beats a blaze on a broad reach in a blow. But nothing beats a laser on a broad reach in a blow either! 
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 12:23pm
Not disagreeing with you but having sailed them both I would just say they are different boats for different types of sailing and sailor......

Absolutely  ... choice for all, we should all be pleased surely. 

'Better' .. for what ?  If you have not tried one or both .. well you know the rest of that line.

Mike L. 
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Posts: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kurio99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 12:26pm
I wonder how much of a factor, weight plays.  Not only is the Blaze, 13 kg heavier, but it probably attracts larger sailors.  Would it be fair to add another 10 kg of meat?  In total, that adds over 15% more mass to haul.  On top of that, the extra mass is resulting in more wetted surface which is a big determinant of boat speed.  I don't understand the math for sailboats, but could that outweight the larger sail at below planing speeds?
 
If we threw an extra 23 kg of boat anchor into every Laser, I suspect that the relative handicaps would be very different.
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 12:56pm
I've always assumed the Blaze was one of those boats for those who've outgrown the Laser... outgrown it in more ways that one that is.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by kurio99

When I look at the specifications for the Laser versus the Blaze, I am surprised that they appear so close in performance.

The Blaze has a much larger sail with 42% more area,

plus 78% more beam or hiking leverage with those wings,

and a 25 year advantage in sailing science, 

but for all that, it still comes off only marginally (3% by Portsmouth) faster than a Laser.

What gives? Confused


Laser is actually a pretty good shape for its requirements, JimC is absolutely right
Blaze is just a copy of a 1990 vintage Ian Howlett 14 design that was flogged on to topper - it is pretty high on wetted surface and sticky for a singlehander.
Quite high waterline beam which is one of the reasosn for its sluggishness, but also for its popularity with folk who would find the RS100 a bit of a frisky mare.
Laser does have 8m2 ish actually
The extra RM that you get with the wings on the blaze should easily outweigh extra weight - again, it doesn't.
A modern epoxy blaze would be a bit nicer. I'd still far sooner sail a phant if I were obese enough.
To my mind the relative performances of Blaze and Laser is a classic example of "design excellence" and the careful consideration of the important factors of the (relatively agricultural) laser overcoming the "make it wider give it more sail and bog some tubes on the side that'll make it better" muscle car approach of the Blaze.
I think that on an open sea reach heavy club course, the blaze would do better, but WL or confined waters and the laser is just as quick really.
Rogue comments re: PY handicap and his appreciation of the empirical quasi demographics is pretty much bang on.
 
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 2:23pm
A modern epoxy blaze would be a bit nicer.....

Think you need to become a bit better informed Daniel ... it is rather nice in epoxy thank you and has been in epoxy for quite a few years now - but then I guess you have not sailed one either.  Maybe get your 'research' in better order next time perhaps ?  and for Pete's sake who wants repetitive w/l courses all the time. (btw we sail by the lee extending the roach - ease the kicker - when needed  ... er in fact not unlike the Laser many of us used to sail really)    'Confined water' - how small is small to you ?  Really not a problem in my experience with effective technique....      

Conjecture without relevent experience ... Gee where do you start to deal with such stuff.   As for the demographic  bits - again it may be true in the banter around your local SC bar but that does not necessarily make it so !  Recent champions have varied betwen 68kg and over 90kg  and anecdotally they are mostly in their 30's age wise ....  not disimilar to the Laser really (?).   I look at our local Laser helms and they look to be about the same size and age profile as us  ... I find it shocking as well myself.    So do enjoy whatever you prefer - I won't say anything more than that.   I cannot as I've not sailed your boat.  We all have choice - thank goodness.  'Muscle Car' I like that one though ... 

Now what football teams do you prefer out there ?  We could have a very similar 'keyboard dialogue'  to this one I'm sure and to as much advantage in the scheme of things.    I know little about the subject myself of course but why should that stop anything ...   Wink

Better go and earn a crust now .... ..

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 3:51pm
Dan - RS and Mike L have all done good things over the last few years which have moved their own perfectly good boats along and given many sailors a great deal of fun so perhaps shouldn't be a target for your criticism from a theoretical point of view. Laser of course have done..............................absolutely nothing and whilst the hull shape of Mr Kirbys creation is very efficient, the rest of it is pretty horrid.

If you don't like any of them then you should design a production boat that you do like and not just criticise other peoples boats, all of which are enjoyed by many. 
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

Dan -
If you don't like any of them then you should design a production boat that you do like and not just criticise other peoples boats, all of which are enjoyed by many. 
 
Err... he designed and built a boat that suited himself. Don't see why he's obliged to put it into production though.
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 4:21pm
True it is made in Epoxy, but not made down to weight in Epoxy with the usual lame excuse of the class not liking it, bugger the class, make them buy a new one if the new one attracts more customers and saves us from all the histrionics of buying all sorts of other dross.

The Blaze is wasted in it's current hands imv it could be so much more and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. It should never have been sold to a luddite.

As to Blaze v Laser how is it better?

Hmm tough one that, just trying to think for a moment somewhere that's not better, the pointy bit at the front of the laser might be nicer but that's about all.

Rig = Better
Centreboard retracts
Wiggle stick doesn't have some God Awful metal UJ thing on it.
Nice poley bits to sit on seem to be missing from the Laser and the one I sailed has a nice sticker that  reads f**k your knees here.
Hmm tough choice really.

But that doesn't mean the Blaze couldn't be even better if they made it properly.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Andymac

Originally posted by SimonW99

Dan -
If you don't like any of them then you should design a production boat that you do like and not just criticise other peoples boats, all of which are enjoyed by many. 
 
Err... he designed and built a boat that suited himself. Don't see why he's obliged to put it into production though.

Er he also helped in getting the boat of total perfection into reality..
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