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Blaze vs Laser Comparison

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kurio99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kurio99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Blaze vs Laser Comparison
    Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 2:33am
When I look at the specifications for the Laser versus the Blaze, I am surprised that they appear so close in performance.

The Blaze has a much larger sail with 42% more area,

plus 78% more beam or hiking leverage with those wings,

and a 25 year advantage in sailing science, 

but for all that, it still comes off only marginally (3% by Portsmouth) faster than a Laser.

What gives? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 7:32am
I don't want to start a war here or anything, but would the "average" standard of sailors of the Laser, in those events where PY reports are sent to the RYA, be higher than that of the Blaze?  If so, a well sailed Blaze should beat a reasonably sailed Laser on handicap..... 
Just a thought...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 7:41am
Assuming the PYs are right then presumably performance increase was not the no 1 objective? Ease of attaining performance was perhaps a greater priority?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 8:01am
I'd have said the reverse.
 
Certainly at the top end of the fleets the overall standard of the Lasers sailors may be higher but for general handicap racing (i.e at most clubs where handicap returns come from) there are lots of 'less gifted/experienced' sailors happily racing Lasers - cheap and relatively easy to sail.
 
The Blaze on the other hand is probably a step up for many and as such is typically sailed by better/more experienced sailors ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 8:39am
Originally posted by kurio99

...a 25 year advantage in sailing science, 

Ah well, that's the bit that's confusing you. For whatever my opinion is worth the Laser has a better hull shape.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 9:02am
I think it's down to conditions, in the sort of Conditions that the Blaze thrives, Lasers don't and Blazes prefer open water, there aint as many of them so club returns are thin.

The Blaze has been lucky not to get labelled the way the Phantom was, performance wise they can be similar except the Blaze doesn't do so well in light conditions with big folk in them because of the rocker and I also believe undersized centreboard, but there will no doubt be someone else along in a moment that will call BS on all that.

The Laser does have a more clement under hull shape for surfing waves and keeping the wetted area minimised by various contrivances of body contortion than the Blaze, but a well set up and equally sailed Blaze will beat a laser and in some conditions (breezy) will also do it on handicap, but there are other conditions where the reverse will apply.

But choose one or the other? Give me a Blaze anyday, worse days work I ever did selling it for that RS100, it just needed a spinnaker version rather than a fat boys rig, a commercial decision the builders made due to dogmatic intransigence on behalf of the owner of the business, he'll be along soon you can abuse him freely he doesn't mind.. Wink

And yes quietly it is now a Bandit of Phantom proportion, bloody thing, I don't think I've beaten it since I sold it to someone who can sail properly, nothin more irritating than buying a nice expensive new boat and then getting thrashed by your old minger (not that the Blaze was a minger really, just my turn of phrase for ironic effect)

Imagine if someone decent like Ovingtons built the Blaze down to Phantom weight and it had a kite, would it or would it not rock? I can't get over how light my pals Phantom is, I'd give blood to have a boat that light that my weight could handle.


Edited by G.R.F. - 10 Nov 11 at 9:07am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 9:11am
The Laser does have a very sweet hull shape, and it isn't just the Blaze that has trouble getting too much faster than it. The Supernova, the Solution and many others find that a Laser is hard to beat if sailed well. The rig may be hated by many on here, but it does seem to do the job. The Laser was a big step up in performance from the boats that went before it - Minisail, Bonito for instance, and even boats like the RS300, designed to be a rocket ship, are less than 10% faster.
 
Still don't want to own a Laser, though...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 9:13am
Well you are all welcome to try out a Blaze of course - just contact the CA anytime.....  nothing like actually sailing different boats for real for informed comment ... er ....as you know. 

I cannot think of anyone in the Blaze fleet who has not previously raced Lasers at one time or other - more than a few to a respectable level.  Anyone commenting here NOT sailed or raced a Blaze yet ?   Really ?  You have not ?  Oh you disappoint.  Or is this just another timely seasonal outing for the 'keyboard sailors' amongst us ?  Come on guys get some sort of life  !!  

Always happy to 'rise' to the blindingly 'obvious' trolling and sometimes to the less obvious on occasion ....  surely you know we believe there is no such thing as bad publicity by now .... 

Mike L.

PS - btw the response made above is not to be taken too seriously either  ... Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 10:10am
I haven't run the stats, complete guess work, but it's a forum so perception's reality n' all that... but would it be fair to say that majority of better than average laser sailors aren't arseing around in handicap races very often, whereas the majority of better than average Blaze sailors are part and parcel of their local menagerie... therefore could you argue that returns of the Laser are slightly weighted towards the muppet end of the spectrum? Primary number or not, given the right conditions (which just happen to be prevailing in the UK on inland puddles) and a scrawny fecker steering, the Laser can be a bit of bandit.

As for the trolling re kites and fat boy rigs.... FWIW the Blaze/Halo combo is one of only two dinghies that would tempt me back into racing dinghies again. The original Mk1 toppers were only knaff because of who sold them and the associated stickers plastered all over it, the latest Blazes that showed up at the 2010 Draycote Dash were mint.... one of them with a big rig for the prevailing b**locks wind, well imo, it'd be something worth sailing again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 11 at 11:17am
I think the Blaze is a really well sorted and good looking boat now - a real credit to Mike and the CA for the vision and gumption to make really effective improvements.
To go back to the OP, the Laser's oft quoted sail area of 7.06m^2 is not accurate. I forget what it actually is, but Nick Peters mentioned it somewhere on the original RS100 thread.
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