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alstorer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by tickel

Just to make a point. At the RS 800 inlands. 41 boats. 19 girls crewing. 4 helming of which 3 were all girl teams. In no way would I dismiss female helms but would it not be more representative to have mixed skiffs?
The 800 is a bit of an odd case, especially given that (unless an all-female boat, oddly enough, though this still isn't in the publicly accesible class rules the last time I checked) the helm HAS to take the main sail. In most twin trapeze boats it is almost inevitably the crew that does the main upwind- the jib needs little attention, and it means less work for the helm.
 
(b14 is an oddity- though otherwise we sail rather like most twin trap boats, the jib needs much more attention and has pretty high sheeting loads, so the helm takes the main unless you're French)
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 3:40pm

Originally posted by tickel

Just to make a point. At the RS 800 inlands. 41 boats. 19 girls crewing. 4 helming of which 3 were all girl teams. In no way would I dismiss female helms but would it not be more representative to have mixed skiffs?
Clapits a bit revolutionary for the ISAF though - whatever next mixed changing rooms, beach volleyball?
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Posts: 408 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 2:05pm
Just to make a point. At the RS 800 inlands. 41 boats. 19 girls crewing. 4 helming of which 3 were all girl teams. In no way would I dismiss female helms but would it not be more representative to have mixed skiffs?
tickel
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Skiffman View Drop Down
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Posts: 291 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 11 at 6:05pm
To reply about the bow, I just do not think it works but I hope I am wrong because it looks great
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Sheetpuller View Drop Down
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sheetpuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 11 at 10:11am
Actually, going back to the first picture in the OP - I know it's the head of the spinny sticking out of the chute, but it really does look like a hooded figure crouched in some sort of bow station; in which case, the bowsprit could actually be a cannon...Hmm - perhaps there is merit in this new design after all... Big smile
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Sheetpuller View Drop Down
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sheetpuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 11 at 9:55am

[/QUOTE]As to whether Olympic selection would mean the kiss of death to sales, I wonder if that might not depend on the level of one-design. I recall the 505's actually trying to avoid Olympic selection at one time in order to avoid risking the popularity of the class, while the FD apparently suffered greatly by its selection. But maybe that was just because the Olympic thing drove the spec and costs up - a strict one-design à la Laser would not suffer that effect.[/QUOTE]

My impression is that cost increases have little to do with it.  I've sailed a couple of olympic classes in my time (Finn and FD) and the feeling I've had is that most 'club' sailors would love to 'have a go', but at the same time feel that such boats are only for the hotshots and that they would not get a look-in.  Better to be sailing a non-olympic class and chasing a place in the first half of the fleet than sail an olympic boat and risk being left as a permanent tail-end charlie...or something like that.  It's muddled thinking, as demonstrated by the fact that I was never ever a hotshot, but it's there all the same.  Just one reason why I think olympic classes should be selected for their popularity; the Laser is a bloody awful piece of work IMO, but at least when ordinary sailing folk see an olympic Laser race they can relate to what's going on.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 11 at 4:57am
Originally posted by getafix

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by getafix

... seems to have been designed recently, rather than in the 50's, surely that rules it out of contention... 

How many of the curent Olympic classes were designed in the 50s?
Star - 1910
Finn - 1949
470 - 1963
Laser - 1969
Laser Radial - 1969/1980s?
49er - 1995
Elliot 6m - 2000/2008
RSX - 2004


perhaps I lack your precision Jim, but thanks for the backup, think you've made my point quite nicely there...


The sailing equipment looks pretty modern compared to the stuff used in other sports.

Javelin - equipment designed between Mycaenean and Roman times, apparently. Performance drastically reduced in the 1960s and 1980s by rule changes, throwers now capable of distances only 80% of those reached in the '60s.

Cycling - basic design frozen in the 1930s to reduce speed by about 35% compared to the fastest possible non-Olympic designs, further restrictions regularly introduced to restrict development. Track equipment heavily restricted - no brakes or gears. Ironically, widespread rejoicing when Tour de France speeds are reduced as doping bans take effect. Current Olympic equipment as fast (compared to unlimited designs) as a Laser is compared to a Moth.

Rowing - basic design to 1880s rules, major performance-reducing restrictions in 1983 etc, current Olympic equipment 10% slower than the fast possible non-Olympic designs.

Swimming - performance-enhancing equipment (fins, streamlined suits etc) banned to reduce performance, strokes restricted to reduce performance.

Shooting, archery, canoeing, kayaking all heavily restricted in design and therefore performance.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

I sailed the boat in Lyme bay with between 14-5 knots with another 49er helm (145kg together) and a girl (125kg together).....

It did feel odd with the bow going through the larger waves in normal trim, after moving backwards meant that the bow was in the sky and we were not maximizing the waterline length.

Doesn't this help explain why the dreadnought bow makes sense? If you have to move aft as you do in most boats in order to avoid shipping a chop over the the bow, you increase the drag, notably at the transom. The d- bow appears to enable you to stay forward and just pierce through the waves, not compromising the fore-aft trim.

As to whether Olympic selection would mean the kiss of death to sales, I wonder if that might not depend on the level of one-design. I recall the 505's actually trying to avoid Olympic selection at one time in order to avoid risking the popularity of the class, while the FD apparently suffered greatly by its selection. But maybe that was just because the Olympic thing drove the spec and costs up - a strict one-design à la Laser would not suffer that effect.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 11:22pm
Well said, Sheetpuller!
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sheetpuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 9:54pm
Looking at the pics in the OP, that hull looks flatter than a flat thing and would be very uncomfortable in a chop.  In fact it's so flat it would make Keira Knightley look positively curvacious, and if I have to bounce around on one of them the boat's got no chance...

I seriously doubt there's enough female market base for a boat of this kind.  If it's accepted for the Olympics then it will sell to those few individuals who have the time, money and raw talent to realistically contemplate sailing at that level.  The history of Olympic classes suggests that selection as an Olympic class inhibits sales to the lesser orders; the exception is the Laser which was a very popular class before it was selected.  So rather than designing ever-more esoteric boats that have no relevance to sailing as a world-wide sport, it would be much better if boats were selected for Olympic competition precisely because they reflect what the real world is sailing.  That way there might be some real recruitment benefits for the sport as a whole.


Edited by Sheetpuller - 24 Oct 11 at 9:56pm
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