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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: LEE BOW EFFECT
    Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 10:44am

Easily proved all this in a test tank.


Why didnt you say so before?

Let me know exactly what youd like set up and il run it in the tank if I have some free time next week.

In the mean time we look forward to the rest of these vector diagrams.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 10:58am
Do this..

Get a little model row boat (preferably with a curved hull if you can't find anything with a foil)

Get your flow going evenly. 

Tie one end secure = boat lines up with current, nothing proved

Secure boat at 45 degrees to current watch what happens.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 11:16am
This is the problem with your theory, it relies on the boat being secured to a stationary point. If that is done yes the foil will generate lift from the tidal flow over it, but the boat is not held stationary, the boat is free and will move around as the water moves around. There will be no flow over the foils apart from the flow that is derived from the normal movement of the boat, and the boat will not be aware of the effects of the tidal flow.
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

This is the problem with your theory, it relies on the boat being secured to a stationary point. If that is done yes the foil will generate lift from the tidal flow over it, but the boat is not held stationary, the boat is free and will move around as the water moves around. There will be no flow over the foils apart from the flow that is derived from the normal movement of the boat, and the boat will not be aware of the effects of the tidal flow.


Exactly.

Or think of it this way - Imagine you are sitting in your V-twin on a totaly calm day, anchored in the middle of a channel with a 2 knot drift. Move the rudder to one side and let me know what happens.
Now cast off your anchor and drift with the current. Move the rudder again.

In one of these scenarios there is flow over your foils due to the current.
In the other scenario you are not anchored.

For what its worth the likes of Stan Honey, Lowell North and Peter Isler are all sitting on Dave Perrys side of the fence.
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.


Originally posted by Rupert

Sea Monkey, what has happened? Your last few posts have dispelled my vision of you as an angry, trolling 13 year old, and show you as a well read sailor who can't possibly be GRF's inner demon fighting to get out! and are a turnturtle gone rogue.


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FTFY


not me chap... this guy clearly knows more than you or I...
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

This is the problem with your theory, it relies on the boat being secured to a stationary point. If that is done yes the foil will generate lift from the tidal flow over it, but the boat is not held stationary, the boat is free and will move around as the water moves around. There will be no flow over the foils apart from the flow that is derived from the normal movement of the boat, and the boat will not be aware of the effects of the tidal flow.


I think we are getting to the bottom of GRPs confusion ... his perpetual motion theories all seem to rely on his reference point being the ground (as if anchored) rather than moving on the current as per the moving carpet or table cloth models ...
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.


Ah ... but do pondmonkies notice strange happenings when someone pulls the plug out of the dam?
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by seamonkey

Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by seamonkey

Even a pondmonkey would know this

no he wouldn't.  All a pondmonkey does know is that like any other flow controlled by the moon, it's best avoided, even in a wetsuit.


Ah ... but do pondmonkies notice strange happenings when someone pulls the plug out of the dam?

only that the baby goes out with the bathwater 
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 11 at 1:03pm
I think GRF is just breaking the different components down to illustrate a point. The motion of the boat due to the wind is what provides the interaction with the tidal force.

And I think everyone does agree that the tide has an impact performance depending on where it is coming from....
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