Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 8:43pm |
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So if Geoff Carveth had sailed and recorded a (3rd place) finish in the race that he was erraneously black flagged in, then the race result should have stood. Irrespective of the way the last race was contested, What on earth were the P.C. thinking by giving average points redress!
Geoff could/should have appealed that decision at the time.
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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I'm not sure the PC would have been allowed, by the rules, to "reinstate" him to 3rd?
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Al |
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Yes they could.
Rule 64.2 Decisions on redress;
...to let the results stand or to make some other arrangement...
I think that would have covered it.
The average points option listed in Appendix A10, which JimC has already highlighted, should only have been used if the boat was 'coerced' into retiring under the erraneous black flag (without a recorded finish position). Besides A10 option (c, would also be available to them.
As it stood, the redress given, left the boat affected vunerable in the final race.
Edit; Having looked at the results again, Geoff would have won the championship with the last race to spare. The best that Andy could have done is win the last race, with Geoff 4th or worse to equal the series score, but [for Andy to] lose out on countback.
Edited by Andymac - 09 Sep 11 at 7:47am |
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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...Or indeed vunerable in any other remaining races, had he suffered say a gear failure and had a retirement.
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Tom J ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 10 May 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 49 |
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A few points:
- I think the average points award was a strange one BUT once it had been made it shouldn't be changed after the last race. Taxi was about to put in a counter protest until he was told that the average ponts would include Geoff's discard. As a result he dropped it figuring a match race would always be an option. Thursdays tactics then became a matter of making sure no other boat could catch him, beating Geoff was not a necessity, being within 3 points of Tom Stewart was. If Geoff had been awarded his 3rd after Wednesdays race then Taxi would have been 2 points behind with 2 races to go and his priorities would have been different.
- Are people saying that someone who can sail Geoff Carveth down to below 28th (which was what was required) in a 60 strong fleet does not deserve to win? Yes Geoff won 4 of the 6 races they sailed but that isn't what counts.
- As for not being amateur, those people in the profession work hard monday to friday like anyone else. Sailmaking is generally not that well paid but it has a few other bonuses like cheaper kit / sails. Sailmakers still give up all of their spare weekends and holiday to go sailing and a lot of that spare time they are working anyway helping people out, delivering kit and looking for ways to improve the kit. If anyone with a decent salary lived on the same budget as a sailmaker and spent the difference in the salaries on new kit and going sailing all the time then they would be in a similar position but without all the stress of working while enjoying your hobby (i'm ignoring big boat stuff here as I don't know enough to comment).
- The name Taxi comes from when he was little and his ears stuck out, his mum said he looked like a taxi with the doors open.
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tickel ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 408 |
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You know the real question, irrespective of projecting ears or not is what qualities make some people so good? Does it require physical expertise? mental agility, learning, endurance, unflappability, what is it? It is obvious that some sailors are on a different planet to us mere mortals, look at Ben and his ears look normal. Some one must have an idea?
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tickel
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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A general feeling of inadequacy and or an inferiority complex, coupled to good physical skills and brainpower, plus the time and finance to dedicate what the character feels is enough effort to practise sufficiently to compensate with his/her opinion of his better 'peers' in so doing over compensation results, the rest becomes addictive. Being born in the early spring also appears to help, never have managed to work out why that is, but it does seem to have an inordinately disproportionate no at the front of all sorts of sports.
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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so thats why i'm not good enough then, i was born in June. Blame my parents. And my ears don't stick out either. Thanks GRF for helping explain that
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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ob1 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 21 Feb 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 72 |
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from MR forum: "I thought you might like to see ISAF's response to the following question.
A 001 Q&A 2007-008 Revised: 12 January 2009 Question 1 Is it a violation of Rule 2 if a competitor attempts to slow another boat's progress in a race by covering or limiting its freedom to start, tack or jibe if this behaviour is not aimed at staying ahead of this competitor in a race or a series of races, but instead is purely aimed at skewing the competitor's result for the worse. Answer 1 Yes. For the purpose of ISAF Case 78, a race or series is restricted to those races governed by a notice of race as published by the organizing authority for the race under consideration. All very interesting! " Edited by ob1 - 12 Sep 11 at 10:36am |
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Ruscoe ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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OB1 I think if you are going to copy posts fromt he Merlin Froum you should copy the rest where its debated. What i will say is why is sailing someone down the fleet unfair? If the rules are not broken and you just defensively cover someone why is this 'Unfair' Its a tacktick used in other sports, so why not sailing??
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