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Extreme 40 crash decision

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 11:07am
So Roth stalled theiur rudders in the bearoff and so they win the protest; if I'd been sitting I'd have asked my Roth presented poor seeman ship (stalled rudders) and expect to win the protest.  Simple question "why did you not ease the traveller to get contol of your rudders?"   I would have expected they do have done this.  There was plenty of wind, why were they not sailing correctly?  I can only assume thjey knew this (they should know how to sail cats afterall) and were going for an expensive foul.... 
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

So Roth stalled theiur rudders in the bearoff and so they win the protest; if I'd been sitting I'd have asked my Roth presented poor seeman ship (stalled rudders) and expect to win the protest.  Simple question "why did you not ease the traveller to get contol of your rudders?"   I would have expected they do have done this.  There was plenty of wind, why were they not sailing correctly?  I can only assume thjey knew this (they should know how to sail cats afterall) and were going for an expensive foul.... 
What rule do you say Rothschild broke?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 12:12pm
Port and starboard, surely, if it was deemed they had time to avoid. I'm not convinced they did.
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 12:54pm
I was on the water, and with a good view, and certainly my immediate view was that Roth had time...on viewing the video I think the time is 6 seconds before they take advoiding action. Although they appear to have taken the view to use match racing tactics, despite several calls from the PRO not to do this, of only taking advoiding action once a collision is inevitable and then claimimg not time advoid.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 1:22pm
Has anybody got any quarrel with the event sequence and timings posted by Quagers in Post 2?
 
Looks ok to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Port and starboard, surely, if it was deemed they had time to avoid. I'm not convinced they did.
Granted <g>.
 
You just can't be on port tack and hit a boat, close hauled or below, on starboard without breaking rule 10.
 
Whether or not the other boat gave you room to keep clear.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Quagers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Stuart O

I was on the water, and with a good view, and certainly my immediate view was that Roth had time...on viewing the video I think the time is 6 seconds before they take advoiding action. Although they appear to have taken the view to use match racing tactics, despite several calls from the PRO not to do this, of only taking advoiding action once a collision is inevitable and then claimimg not time advoid.

Surely that is 6 secs from when Art starts to tack? Which is not when Roth has to start avoiding, also they couldnt have know as Art goes into the tack that they would stall, I guess they assumed they would come out of the tack quickly and could pass behind no problem. In my view they started avoiding as soon as they realised it was all going wrong for Art.

And unless anyone disagrees with the timings I posted at the start of the thread, then Art was in the wrong because Roth started taking avoiding action before they were obliged to and there was still a collision.


Edited by Quagers - 11 Aug 11 at 3:12pm
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 3:20pm
I think the key point there is that Roth assumed they would accelerate out of the tack. IMHO the tactics used are dubious, it is a tactic used in match racing so that the umpires know there wasnt time to advoid. In those conditions I personally may have started advoidance when the started the tack, which they easily would have seen. Its interesting but the chat on the quay after was that only 1 neutral skipper (if you can call any skipper in the neutral) viewed it as a 50/50
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Quagers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 3:28pm
But by admitting that they should have started to avoid when Art started to tack that means that Art is in the wrong, granted common sense says Roth could have started avoiding earlier and potentially could have avoided the crash but there was no reason for them to anticipate Art stalling and they began to avoid when it became clear that Art wasnt avoiding, which is exactly what they are required to do by the RRS. Regardless all this doesnt exonerate Art from their infringement so the protest committee can only find one way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 11 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Stuart O

I think the key point there is that Roth assumed they would accelerate out of the tack.
No, sorry the key point is that Roth doesn't have to assume anything; not that the other boat would tack onto starboard at the mark (as obvious as it is), nor that it may or not stall in doing so. 
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