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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Windward mark question
    Posted: 06 May 11 at 6:48pm
Ok here we go...
2 boats approaching the WW mark to Starboard.
 
Both have been overlapped for some time (to cover the arugment we shall say L establish overlap from astern some time back and so cannot luff above her proper course).
 
W is on the layline, L is slightly below the layline.
 
As they enter the zone L inform W that they are luffing to make the mark and then sail above close hauled to do so. W gives way.
 
My questions are:
 
1) In this situation can L luff (L Claimed that it was their 'Proper course' to do so)?
 
2) Can sailing above close hauled ever be considered proper course?
 
Discuss....
 
This is not a situation I have been perosnally involved in but is something I came across on another site and I don;t think the advice was correct....
Paul
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 11 at 7:17pm
I think L has got themselves in a right pickle and they risk stalling both boats head to wind or worse forcing both boats to tack. So tactically not a good thing.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 11 at 7:30pm
This seems very simple, unless there's something I'm missing...

L is entitled to sail her proper course (R17) AND to mark room (R18), but NOT room to tack (R18.2c)

As for proper course, here's the definition.
Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal.

So if the boat would normally luff up, even head to wind, to pass the mark rather than put two tacks in then surely its proper course.

Or have I missed something.
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themeaningoflife View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		Post Options Post Options   Quote themeaningoflife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 11 at 7:54pm
This exact issue came up at a school training session on Tuesday...The answer suggested then was that the L boat can push the W boat all the way up to head to wind but not 1 degree further, that then constitutes a tack so L has no rights then....This can only be done however if L has enough momentum to make it all the way around the mark.
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 11 at 8:46am
I concur with JimC and themeaningoflife.
 
Just to confirm the boats are on the Starboard layline, on Starboard tack, to leave the mark to Port.
 
L has mark room, and can luff up to head to wind in order to 'shoot' the mark. Incidentally L can sail above a close hauled course i.e. 'pinch' even before the 3 boat length zone... However if L fails in its attempt to make the mark, then W could protest, as L would not have demonstrated the definition of 'proper course'
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 11 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by jeffers

2) Can sailing above close hauled ever be considered proper course?


"Close-hauled" is a term used by but not defined in the RRS but most of us would take it to be the course to maximise VMG.

Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in
the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term.

So can it be "proper course" to squeeze up above "close-hauled" for the last few yards to a mark to avoid a double-tack? Absolutely yes. It makes perfect sense to do so in many classes.
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