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Farr 3.7
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Barty View Drop Down
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Joined: 16 Mar 04
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Posts: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Barty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Farr 3.7
    Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 1:27pm
On the trailer front, I developed a design for a box trailer that had accomodation in it.  The boat went in with the accomodation cell ina raised (concertina) position then when the boat comes out the trailer turned into a mini caravan for open events.
 
The main problems were:
1. Cost of the trailer over a normal combi and b&b's
2. Ended up needing 2 spaces as the accomodation prevented the boat being stored.
3. Weight and size - fuel economy.
 
Never really took it any further as I didn't see a market in the UK.
For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 1:31pm
Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender, so many on here should be wringing their hands, saying how out of date it is!
Personally, I see that time period of design as being a great one, where boats were designed to work across a range of conditions, whilst still pushing the design envelope.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:21pm
Barty,
I am sure you are right about the target market for such a trailer, but surely making one out of an old caravan chassis is possible?  I am not sure about it being a full on caravan but a box system which you could unroll a couple of camp mats must be better then a tent stuck in the ground.  They would almost certainly protect the boat better over the winters too.  I may have a look at making one.  To be honest i could keep my combi for events when space is at a premium or you were staying in a hotel.  But for 2 day opens it could be perfect, especially if i could run 12v lighting system chargeable off the car battery like a caravan too!!

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by getafix

Despite the glam (and grin) factor of single-handed with kite, many club courses just don't suit this.  Yeah, you'll have a great time if you go out for a blast, or if you launch off a beach to open sea or a big harbour (or even resevoir).  I know the MPS has been successful, and to a measure so far, also the RS100.  But other 'experiments' haven't proved as successful IMO such as the Vareo, RS700 and the not-so-widespread but fantastic IAC and I don't think that's because they're not good boats in their own right, just that across the UK, their are a limited number of clubs where racing such a beast (i.e. 300m+ course legs) make sense and the MPS fleets built quickly and have sustained that to some extent as well.Their could well be a gap in the market for a 'lightwieights Contender'... will be interesting to see where this goes


For me this is why the 3.7 is a sensible choice. And the NZ Association is sensible enough to recognise that some people want to fit a Assy Kite for a bit of fun, in the rules. But I accept that I am much better off sailing the boat with just the Mainsail for racing. I may add a Assy in the future just for fun, but I wouldn't be looking to adopt it for class racing.

The other benefits are that it is a One Design. Not a SMOD. And a One Design that allows an amount of modification / home build if you want ethic, which I like.
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by getafix



Their could well be a gap in the market for a 'lightwieights Contender'... will be interesting to see where this goes


I'm looking for the "heavyweights Contender" that would go well in light winds!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender,

Not remotely! In practical terms Northern hemisphere designs didn't catch up with where Farr et al were at the beginning of the 70s until at least the end of the 1980s.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 9:37am
The southern boats may well have been better in many ways but IMHO in other ways, particularly sectional shapes, the UK designs lead the way.  The U section seen on modern boats like NS14s, 12s, Int 14s etc was seen in Merlins and National 12s long before it arrived in the southern hemisphere. 

"Personally, I see that time period of design as being a great one, where boats were designed to work across a range of conditions, whilst still pushing the design envelope."

There's a lot of truth in that IMHO!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Rupert

Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender,

Not remotely! In practical terms Northern hemisphere designs didn't catch up with where Farr et al were at the beginning of the 70s until at least the end of the 1980s.
Surely the Contender was a Southern hemisphere boat, and the Laser designed in conjunction with Ian Bruce, who also had a hand in the Tasar, amongst other boats. Neither of the designs I mentioned had huge European influence, and both have been panned on here by certain people as being "Old".
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:30pm
OTOH the U sections were also seen on Morgan Giles 14s and Raters and NZL Napier Patikis from the turn of the last century...
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:49pm
With respect, Jim, those were very different U sections to the type that first really popped up (IMHO) in Michael Jackson's N12 March Hare.  The reasoning Michael used for his sections is pretty much identical to the reasoning used many years later by Nash when he pretty much introduced that way of thinking into NS14s and then 12s etc.  Earlier NS14s that went well, but had less influence, were definitely influenced by March Hare because their designers wrote about it.

Nash was able to take it further because of rules and technology, but the narrow U-shape "displacement" hull can easily be seen to be something that arrived rather later in the southern hemisphere and then took over from the traditional "flat vee" shape, which was of course rather forced on designers by ply construction, despite the best efforts of guys like Macca to bend ply flat along the keel line.

The dominance of the southern boats in design (rather than rule and dimension) terms may be over-rated as indicated by the last of the "open" 14 worlds when the ultimate "Aussie" 14s, the Wedges, met the Howletts etc in San Francisco.  Paul Bieker noted that “Most of the Australian hull designs have very flat bottoms, with a little rocker distributed evenly over the length of the boat, low chines, and fine bows. This style of boat is potent in flat water and 12 knots or more breeze, planing earlier and faster than other designs. However, in light air they seem to be relatively slow, due primarily to high prismatic coefficient and a greater tendency towards transom immersion. When breeze is accompanied by large chop, these boats tend to 'slap' enough upwind to restrict their powerful planing capacities, and they show a greater tendency to cartwheel downwind, forcing the crew to throttle back a bit in order to survive.”

The top Aussie 14ers confirmed Paul's information, and indicated that the rounder, narrow-stern Howletts etc were actually very potent in light and heavy winds despite being heavier, narrower and having smaller rigs.  

I suppose it also depends on where in the performance spectrum you are looking - Holt's boats had a huge influence down here, and the most popular boats include those like the Sabre and Sunburst which are no faster than their UK equivalents like Solos and GP14s/Ents.
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