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GybeFunny View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 11:23am
Originally posted by radixon

You can't swap sails in the Laser, so similar for 100 i supose.

But the Laser has a different PY for each rig, the 100 does not!
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 11:41am
So the RS100 84Club has to constitute itself as a separate class?

I'm waiting for news on the 75Club or is it 74?

Then I guess it'll have to be a sex change..
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 11:42am
Morning:-)
 
James thanks for the tips - note to self, must try to sail faster when racing LOL
 
More generally, it would help if we knew what data had been returned to support the 998 PY number (e.g., whether any 8.4 returns were made?) - have asked Bas about this
 
There isn't much data as yet, but if we stop recording don't record who is sailing with what rig we will never know what the difference between the 8.4 and 10.2 should be
 
In the end do you think enough boats will be sold to make up two classes?  Have RS already sold more 100s than 300s for example?
 


Edited by asterix - 21 Mar 11 at 12:22pm
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 12:15pm
James,
My issue is the class concept last year when alot of us bought the boat was 2 rigs with 2 PY's. That seemed pretty clear to me. If this is still the classes view point should we not then question why the RYA have accepted the results they are using given that they dont seem to know which rig is being used? They have taken all results as one class when we all thought there were 2. We can blame the clubs as much as we want but its a new class and we can all understand how the confusion could happen but should the RYA accept the returns if they dont know the rig configuration. At the end of the day I will accept whatever PY is around and try my best with it but I do feel that this general PY will result in alot of the lighter guys being put off the boat and the hope was it would appeal to a broad range of weights.
Cheers,
Keith.
Keith
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Posts: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Quote slimb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 1:12pm
Following on from Keiths comments about us lightweight guys, I agree that this scything of the handicap badly hurts the broad appeal of the class. I would have thought that from RSs point of view this really hurts their future sales and am surprised Nick doesn`t seem to be pushing against it. By the way has everybody just accepted that the RYA can add up and haven`t queried the figures, would have thought RS again would have done that. I`ve read all the blogs through last year and the start of this and didn`t see anywhere that the RS100 had become a handicap bandit and was mopping up all the trophies. With a 16 point drop for us 8.4 guys you`d have thought we`d have won everything last year - are the numbers right??
 
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haroosh View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 2:02pm
James, I understand how the system works but what I'm saying is has the class responded back to the RYA to say that this boat is indeed actually 2 classes in handicap terms. I understand that they might not be able to do anything to change the current PY based on not knowing what their current results data is based on (8.4 or 10.2) but it would mean future returns which are labelled as 8.4 or 10.2 could then feed into the respective data set.
hereas at present I suspect all 100 return for the 2011 season will simply go in the RS100 bucket regardless of rig configuration.
 
Question for the class - for handicap racing is this one boat or two? My assumption was two but maybe this is not the case and the class and going down the route of one boat with different rigs like a Skiff.
Cheers,
Keith. 
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Posts: 628 		Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 2:08pm
doing OK here so far -  on 998 ( and they did well last year on the bigger PY )
http://www.gurnardsc.org.uk/season_results.aspx?aid=828

As far as I know, GSC submits PY returns, and separated the sizes last year.


Edited by I luv Wight - 21 Mar 11 at 2:10pm

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Posts: 109 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AndrewLB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 2:26pm
Another 100 rig size / handicap discussion. *sigh*

Well it was a frustrating day yesterday at Hayling with factionally less wind than was really needed to get away from a phalanx of flying 15s. Again it highlights that handicapping a boat based on it's capability on W/L in a F3-4 doesn't help matters when you're triangle/sausaging in a F2 with a bucket load of tide.

The main problem people seem to be having is sailing on courses and venues that inhibit a boat from performing to its RYA published number. This appears to be a problem with clubs having either a shortage of understanding (easily fixed) or a level of intransigence (less easily fixed) towards setting a local adjustment. If you race inland on a puddle or you do lots of really wonky RTC courses that prevent you from hoisting the kite then you have to argue the case for a local handicap that takes that into account. No one single number will fit the boat across all venues; if you race an apparent wind skiff at a venue that doesn't suit then be prepared to lose a lot of races!

At Hayling the numbers are adjusted locally and we race off 989 but even the 9 extra points wouldn't have helped yesterday, when you're in sub-planing conditions you're screwed.
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Posts: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Foxbox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 2:41pm
It is strange that 'we' struggle with this 1, 2 (or 3?) class problem. Why try to reinvent the wheel. What is so different with the RS100 that we do not do it the Laser way? There are different handicaps for a Laser standard, radial, 4.7 . Why is that a problem for the RS100?

I really do see a problem when all sailsize have 1 handicap. Which classes have that?
How many results were actually used for this PY recalculation? To me it looks like we can forget 2010, and start all over. Results without sailsize indication are obsolete.

i also do not understand why the sail/ boat has to be recognizable als 8.4, 10.2 . I register for an event, tell them my WoC, and the RC must simply  write down sailnumbers. A bandit Laser can fool me by registering Radial and sailing Standard (i see no difference). I f you have guys like that in the field, nothing will stop them. 

I do not sail in the UK. In my country we use a different handicap system. I looked at the PY, and searched in the list for roughly the same value.With the old PY i am comparable with a Finn. With the ne PY i am comparable with a Contender. (I sail 10.2)
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 11 at 2:49pm
I see where your coming from James but I'm just worried the class goes down the 300 route where one rig dominates and pushes lighter folks out.
Is is also still early days in really establishing the performance between the rigs so hopefully this season should give us alot more data to compare. That may or may not drive the need for different PY's. Unfortunatley the RYA wont necassarily see this if they consider all 100 results as one boat - that was my point. I am looking forward to seeing how well I cansail against the new handicap - I suspect it will just reduce the competitive weather window a bit.
Cheers,
Keith.
Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8)
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