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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cirrus Icon Development
    Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by blaze720

Hi Tim



Charlie - amazing that you should 'see' so much from a single photo - you will just have to examine the latest jib for yourself sometime.    I think we may have gybed on the approach and had the dangle pole still out with a teeny bit of tension still .... The jib is much fuller that you might imagine and significantly more so than most development ones ... and of course the battening has been shall we say 'altered' as well. LOL     (Don't be too mislead by the tape lines !!)
   

Mike he did at the show, and chatted to you for a long while about it there.  Charlie has probably spent more time then most developing Jibs in the last few years, but his POV was similar to mine, its not the jib fullness its the battens, in light winds (or no wind as per the show) he sail was flat as a board.  Half length battens would in my/our mind be better.  its not a dig, just a constructive criticism.  For the record (as you can tell from my previous posts) i am a big fan of the Icon. 


Edited by Ruscoe - 14 Mar 11 at 8:47pm

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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 9:12pm
Hi Ruscoe

Point of information - We do not have the same battening seen in the show jib ...  we do listen, or at least try to.  My responce is therefore perhaps inevitably (slightly) tongue in cheek given the point being made was exactly  the same .. but the jib was not.   I make no claim to be a sail design specialist and therefore also rely on the input of our suppliers and others who have sailed the boat across a range of conditions.

I did not think anyone was having a dig - equally I hope I'm not now coming across as defensive either.  Come and sail the boat sometime... all of you - just PM me .... we are always looking for input and feedback and to a great extent Icon is what it is now because we have taken so much new thinking onboard.  After all I was the one who wanted to retain the wing mast and not to  'grow' the hull or use a 'dangle' pole .  I was wrong and ... 'they' were so so right of course.  

Mike L.      

   


Edited by blaze720 - 14 Mar 11 at 9:15pm
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 12:41am
Mike, It may not be the same battens but a full batten at that sort of short length looked like it flattened the sail off too much at the show and that photo. Sorry if my post came across a little 'sharp'  it really wasn't my intention i just felt that your post regarding charlie's comment was a little over defensive (understandably so when you have spent so much time, money and effort in developing the boat)  But the comments matched those of mine, much like my questioning of the jib sheeting system.

I wish you luck with the Icon, it deserves to be a success.

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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 10:42am
Hi Ruscoe

No problem - forum banter and comment is always different to a face to face conversation - it is one of the limiting aspects of it of course (Even the diplomat that is GRF can come across a bit harsh on here ... now have I got that right ?).

I'm serious about sailing the boat, we are really keen that people should see it sail and try it themselves now, particularly for those who you can provide feedback and input.... however be warned we positively loathe Dacron despite the views  of it in some quarters !   We have also already responded to show feedback in some areas including modification of the rule covering the orientation of jib sheeting to allow the very choice you propose.  It will be a defined choice for individual boats at the order stage - that way we can 'keep most of the people happy most of the time'.

We adopted this approach with the Blaze in several areas and while we keep the 'expensive bits' single source and one-design we do allow relative freedom in several 'personal choice' areas.  This works on a practical basis and on a comemrcial one.

Anyone want a 'go' - pm or email me ...

Mike L. 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 11:41am


It's only when I see pics like that, nothing wrong with it, but it comes home to me why my perception is so badly scewed. Our lot wouldn't go out in conditions like that. It's obviously light and perfectly sailable, but when it's like that on the sea, they won't even get the rescue boats up to lay a course unless maybe I'm race officer and make them. So probably why my impression of handicaps (like the laser which obviously is not going anywhere fast in those conditions) is at odds with what's going on.

I can also see the futility of spinnakers now, they'd make not one iota of difference, in fact probably slow the boat down, so I kind of get it now..

There, diplomatic enough? We're all products of our own different environments.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 11:59am
Have you OD'ed Graeme?

FWIW, the Icon is not a light wind, inland specialist despite having no kite. It's manoeuvrable enough for restricted waters but fast enough and big enough to be just as happy on the sea. Much like a Merlin in that respect.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 12:15pm
im impressed by the height of the rig. nice and tall for the square top to pick up the evening zephyrs above everyone else. got to say I'm really looking forward to seeing it on Saturday Mike.
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Posts: 75 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CaptainSlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 12:21pm

Mike I just pm'd you.

Maxi is the Icon coming on Sat?
 
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 1:13pm
Graeme

Believe me the kite paid at the Frensham Frenzy at least 90% of the time, as below. So much so, i thought I should stop lurking and actually post something. Sorry about hijacking an icon thread with a 100 pic tho


Clive
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 11 at 1:22pm
But Clive - to continue the hijack - it also provided the 'Comedy moment' of the day!
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