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X1 Dinghy

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Mar 11 at 9:38pm
Aren't those Norflok Punts - PN 875 - that the X1 is racing away from in the Horning video? If so, that's very impressive, and makes even light airs sailing look like a hoot.
 
While i've nothing against symmetric kites on a river boat, I can't help wondering how an asymmetric would work out on a boat with such a high boatspeed to windspeed ratio like this. Could sail very deep I'd have thought, and you'd have the benefits of easy-handling, extra area down low and higher aspect ratio for efficient reaching.
 
A symmetric kite can be very satisfying if you've got an expert crew - indeed, in my experience expert crews prefer symmetrics because they can make more of a difference - but unfortunately such crews are in short supply amongst club racers...
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 11 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac


A symmetric kite can be very satisfying if you've got an expert crew - indeed, in my experience expert crews prefer symmetrics because they can make more of a difference - but unfortunately such crews are in short supply amongst club racers...

Exactly, whereas that swinging pole on the Alto which can dead run if necessary can be used by anyone, even a windsurfer. Wink
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 8:22am
Looks pretty quick and powerful.
 
Looks like a great Wednesday night/summer  weapon inland.
 
On a tidal river, if you must fit a spinnaker, the symmetric would be ideal - anyone claimig that an assy should have been fitted clearly knows very little about this type of sailing.
 
i.e. hoist the assy - head off into the adverse  tide, gybe back in under the trees etc tec etc
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

 
A symmetric kite can be very satisfying if you've got an expert crew - indeed, in my experience expert crews prefer symmetrics because they can make more of a difference - but unfortunately such crews are in short supply amongst club racers...


Symmetric kites do not need an expert crew! Kids have been taught in Mirrors for donkeys years! Assymetrics work on boats that create apparent wind, the fact that kids are now hardly ever taught to use a symmetrical kite, is in my view damaging sailing. And perpetuating the myth of difficulty. The fact that an Assymetric is put on every boat regardless of it's ability to be faster around the course, because of this miss-guided, view is plain daft!

I'm really glad the guys that have put the X1 together have kept with what is best for the job. More power to there elbow!
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 2:30pm
You're right, a symmetric kite doesn't need an expert crew, but it benefits hugely from one, and picking up a scratch crew can severely damage your results. It's the main reason I switched from a Fireball to a 3000 when i lost my top-notch crew - it just wasn't satisfying saling with less-skilled crews, whereas most people can cope with an asy. That said, my old crew, guesting in the 3k, did complain he was bored crewing an asymmetric, even right in the middle of a full-on three-sail reach out in the Thames Estuary! It's the main reason Fireballs stick with the symmetric, I believe.
 
But the X1 is so fast compared to windspeed in light airs, I would have thought the apparent wind would have been pretty well forward on most off-wind legs - the boat will be 'apparent wind sailing', so the ability to square off the kite will not be at all as pronounced as on a Mirror or Wayfarer. Judging from my experiences with the L & V3k's, I'd say that the cut-off for apparent wind sailing is around PY1000, and judging by experiences of the RS400/Laser 4000, I'd suggest that it would be pointless squaring the pole on a sub-900 boat, which in light airs the X1 appears to be. Different matter when the wind gets up, of course, but then the X1 will be stuffed against trapeze boats on PY anyway.
 
And by the way, I sail on a river where tidal strategy is very important, albeit not a tree-lined, canal-style venue.


Edited by Medway Maniac - 05 Mar 11 at 2:37pm
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 2:34pm
Well said. JS. IMO, except for extreme boats such as twin-trapeze skiffs, asymmetrical kites are a pointless dumbing down. Whether they make most boats go significantly faster than a symmetrical kite is debatable as virtually all the assy boats are SMODs so we'll never get to see the two forms racing against each other in the same class. Anyway, sailing is about skill not speed. People who want to go fast without having to learn to sail properly should buy a power boat instead. 
Best wishes from deep in the woods

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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 5:19pm
The boat speed in that roll tacking clip is very impressive.
 
Would anything else be going that well in those conditions ?
 
 
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rogerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 7:44pm
So who saw it  at the show.... how does it look in the flesh ?

Edited by rogerd - 05 Mar 11 at 7:44pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

Well said. JS. IMO, except for extreme boats such as twin-trapeze skiffs, asymmetrical kites are a pointless dumbing down.

We sailed them on even terms in Cherubs in '89 when the boats were single string. Even when there's no difference in boat speed losing places on every gybe mark is rather boring.
There are three fundamental differences with asymmettrics.
The first is that the shape in the sail can be cut to be in the right place
The second is that can handle at least 30% more rag with the same skill level.
The third is the you can set the kite a reasonable distance from the forestay without the complications of a long spinnaker pole. Reasonable is about double the jib tack/mast distance. Gybing poles like that can be a bit of a challenge.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 11 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by rogerd

So who saw it  at the show.... how does it look in the flesh ?
I saw it at the show, showed it to my chum, who would be equally flummoxed by that pole thing, being another ex windsurfer turned sailor.

Seemed to be a busy stand nonetheless, there being obviously enough 'old school dinghyists' that do know how it works..

Very narrow, very big rig, I'd hate to be in it above force 4.
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