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rogerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: X1 Dinghy
    Posted: 16 Feb 11 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.


I'm not sure the sail plan and narrowness of the hull will take well to the more gusty stuff you get on Rivers like the Thames (yes I've also sailed the Thames thanks) where the buildings produce some nasty viscious 'tumbling' gusts, but I still hope it's successful even though they have been in my mind a tad silly. Theoretically one should applaud an honest approach, but the term 'commercially naive' so often becomes the epitaph to idealistic ventures.
 
Thames A raters and early (narrow) Merlins with 26 foot masts seem to cope with Thames type gusts so I see no reason why this boat shouldnt go really well there.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Beardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 11:22am
Oo, I sail on a river I thought.
This could be just the boat I thought.
It's a 2 hander (or three) I see. Shame.
Ah well, back to plan A.
sorting my life out, one shed at at time
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 12:59pm
man slightly upset that two-hander is not a single hander. World unrocked.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 3:33pm
Thanks for the further comments, and many points made - definitely taken.

We've already made some subtle changes to the website.

Re speed and limits - yes, we know there are quite a number of clubs at some smaller waters and rivers out there that have limits on size of boat etc. But we hope that when people see what this dinghy can do and the interesting active time it gives you even in very light wind conditions, and importantly it's extreme manouevrability, then they may relent on these limits.

Re the twin pole systems I'm pretty sure we will stick with one - mainly from the complexity of rigging point of view, but we also did speak to some very good Merlin sailors at Salcombe who figured single poles are actually better on rivers.

Re the thwart - we've been obsessed with a clean open cockpit for simplicity and the ability to easily have three on board, but are definitely listening to this one.

And the vicious tumbling gusts on the Thames - that's absolutely right, and one of the reasons we have direct to boom skiff style mainsheeting - to react quick. But it's also the exact reason we've changed our mind as mentioned earlier and gone for the open transom self draining. Such conditions (at our club it's particularly when there is a southerly) we think are almost the most extreme you can get i.e. a huge long gust, and then suddenly behind a set of trees absolutely nothing for a while. Meaning that if you do capsize and then find you're in no wind, self draining is essential.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 3:47pm
As far as single/twin poles go- why not make it something that can be chosen by owners to suit- as you say, there are Merlin sailors that stick to single pole. If it it really is something with no clear performance benifit either way, then don't be prescriptive?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by alstorer

As far as single/twin poles go- why not make it something that can be chosen by owners to suit- as you say, there are Merlin sailors that stick to single pole. If it it really is something with no clear performance benifit either way, then don't be prescriptive?


Twin poles are a lot easier and quicker to use in my opinion, so would give a performance benefit.
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 6:37pm
Especially the twin Spiro version used on 5o5's now, they look really simple and quick to use.  We will be switching in a few months.

I do like the look of it, despite the kite.  Any chance we could borrow one for the Tewkesbury SC regatta weekend??  Small River, perfect.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 2:03pm
Appreciate the comments re twin poles.

With any one-design, the issue is always how strict to be, and I think we'll decide this one by the time of the Dinghy Show.

Re Tewkesbury SC regatta, I think you were kind enough to invite us along last year.
Thanks very much, and hopefully this year we'll be able to make it.

We're putting together a programme at the moment of events we'd really like to do.
Suggestions welcome, but this will have to be co-ordinated with demo days etc, so can't promise anything yet.

One thought had occurred to us in terms of who might be particularly interested in this boat.
We're aware that Finns, Phantoms and Solos all seem to be doing very well as single hander classes at the moment, and, quite apart from the fact of them being excellent boats to sail, it's evident that all of them can carry some weight.

We've an idea that the X1 could work well for any of these class sailors (based at a club not located on the open sea) who might wish to try two hander sailing as well.

And I can also report that, having been criticised for being too negative in our first posting about 'skiff sailors not being interested' in this project, we've sacked our marketing department. Our new one has come up with a much much more positive proposal to make to skiff sailors.....that, yes, this will be the ideal 'second boat' to have for those days when the skiff is really not going to be much fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by ChrisI

Appreciate the comments re twin poles. With any one-design, the issue is always how strict to be, and I think we'll decide this one by the time of the Dinghy Show


Ultimately won't that be up to your Class Association once you have one, unless you intend to be very prescriptive and keep a firm power of veto over rule changes?

Good though the Merlin system might be to use, my observation of seeing it, especially off the water, is that it must add something in the order of 300 quid to the price of the boat, and appears to be a son-of-a-bitch to set up and rig/derig from travelling. In that respect there's an awful lot to be said for a single pole/keyhole system that you don't need a detailed instruction manual to understand.

Comments via rig height beam etc: I would have thought that a high aspect ratio/tall rig and narrow beam was the right way to go in gusty inland conditions, because a narrow boat won't self steer as dramatically when heeling suddenly, and a taller rig is easier to design for gust response.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by JimC

 

Good though the Merlin system might be to use, my observation of seeing it, especially off the water, is that it must add something in the order of 300 quid to the price of the boat, and appears to be a son-of-a-bitch to set up and rig/derig from travelling. In that respect there's an awful lot to be said for a single pole/keyhole system that you don't need a detailed instruction manual to understand.

.

The merlin system requires one additional carbon tube, cost about £150, plus a few pieces of string and a couple of bull's eye fairleads. Each pole has only one piston end. It's actually dead simple to rig after towing (you need a system to keep the lines tidy, that's all!) and dead easy to use.
End for end gybing with a keyhole pole might be easier to master, but needs a heavier pole as the downhaul is loading is in the middle. Twin poles are quick on the drop and hoist and are not hard to learn. If I wanted a Riverboat, I don't think I'd be too worried which pole system it had, but if you were used to twin poles it would be nice to stick with that system IMHO.
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