Cirrus Icon Development

What I like about the jib stick is how long it is. Nice not to be confined by existing class rules on such things.... · don't

   What I like about the jib stick is how long it is. Nice not to be confined by existing class rules on such things.

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Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Cirrus Icon Development Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 8:17pm
	What I like about the jib stick is how long it is. Nice not to be confined by existing class rules on such things.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 8:49pm
	What I like about the jib stick is how long it is. Nice not to be confined by existing class rules on such things.... 'Confession time' ...... running out of days we quickly purchased a 2m stick off P&B pre-made last week. They can do longer but this one was originally intended for an Enterprise and was on the stock shelf so we are giving it a go. We do think however that it is about the right length .. and possibly destined for a much more exciting life now ! Mike L. PS - As promised ... the basic cockpit view

andymck Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397	Post Options Post Reply Quote andymck Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 9:43pm
	If its an ent one, you may want something a bit longer, have a look at Jeremys or Graham's ones, I think we tend to have longer on the 12. This helps control the leach better when reaching. Certainly the early Ent ones looked a bit short, but I dont know what they ended up with after the rule change. Andy
	Andy Mck

andymck Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397	Post Options Post Reply Quote andymck Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 9:48pm
	One thing I noticed is the jib sheet layout, fore and aft sheeting adjustment is very important. The sailmaker should be able to give you the intended sheeting angle of the jib from the tack position. Most boats then adjust fore and aft to change leech tension. I know you are experimenting to a degree, but leech tension is crucial to slot control as well. Andy
	Andy Mck

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 9:51pm
	Ooh, that's nice and clean- but only kicker led amidships? Not cunningham too? Also, looking at that wondering how to make kicker continuous without adding mess- especially when sailing courses with both windward mark and leeward to port it really is rather common to let it off on starboard but pull it on port, no?
	-_ Al

andymck Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397	Post Options Post Reply Quote andymck Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 10:01pm
	Just noticed the lack of rig adjustment too. Fixed forestay, and fixed lowers, and fixed shrouds. I hope you are going to allow some freedom with these. Now I am definitely going to need a thwart to get all those controls in. One of the big advances over the last 15 years in development boats is the rig controls, with the carbon sticks. Andy
	Andy Mck

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 10:06pm
	Love how clear it is! I'd be cautious about adding to many tricks to it to make it faster. N12s are great boats, but as a development class the priorities are different to a one design. Fore and aft jib movement would make it faster, but also is anextra complication that isn't really needed IMO and begins to move you incrementally toward expert crew status. Not sure about the downhaul cleating down though. I'd either lead it back with the kicker or use a flip flop.

Lukepiewalker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lukepiewalker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 10:15pm
	A survey of National 12 dangly poles found 1.6m to be the 'standard' length for them, so 2m sounds fine as you'll have a larger jib.
	Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 10:28pm
	The control options are intentionally spartan ..... at least at this stage of proving but likely to still seem relatively basic to some when finished. It is simplistic at one level and purposefully designed to keep heads out of the boat. There is probably only going to be one additional adjustment not yet on the boat - and I think you might just be missing one already there ! The concept is that we are not trying to emulate Merlins or N12s etc after all - nothing wrong with them at all but we are trying a different 'mix' here - Keep it light and keep it simple, and keep it very efficient and keep the options limited. The 'nth' degree of performance possible by having many adjustable rig controls is not really our prime target. Very often it moves towards rapidly diminishing returns - and ICON will be more than fast enough anyway. Mike L.

MikeBz Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536	Post Options Post Reply Quote MikeBz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 11 at 11:45pm
	Good call Mike. One of the revelations of modern carbon-sticked well-designed rigs is that you don't need to endlessly fiddle with rake to change gears (esp. on a light easily-driven hull). On a carbon-sticked B14 we (as in some of us, not necessarily all) only need 1 rake setting to cover all conditions, the rig works really well across all wind-strengths just using downhaul & kicker. Design over engineering, not engineering over design. Less expense for everyone (if everyone has it then what's the point), less to go wrong, less maintenance, and more time spent head-out-of-the-boat-sailing not fiddling with the rig. Mike Edited by MikeBz - 25 Jan 11 at 11:46pm