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hollandsd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:45pm
[/QUOTE]
That is just a irrelevance.  people don't generally get slower and less agile as they get blacker. Please take your perverse logic elsewhere. You are simply clouding the issue with an argument of your own making.
[/QUOTE]

I think the proper term is to get more black.......
Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782
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steve123497 View Drop Down
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote steve123497 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by hollandsd


That is just a irrelevance.  people don't generally get slower and less agile as they get blacker. Please take your perverse logic elsewhere. You are simply clouding the issue with an argument of your own making.
[/QUOTE]

I think the proper term is to get more black.......
[/QUOTE]
Wink Good job I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that. Tongue
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by G.R.F.

[QUOTE=Steve411]


Not often anything offends me but really what different does it make that he's 70?



Oh dear, I forgot about the PC generation. Now this is as a total aside, however, when has any one ever been offended by having their correct age quoted. I mentioned his age to give a clear picture of the sailors involved and to avoid any speculation.

Not often anyone accuses me of being PC.

So now the acid test here you should apply to yourself. If he'd been black would you have mentioned it?

And there lies your answer.

That is just a irrelevance.  people don't generally get slower and less agile as they get blacker. Please take your perverse logic elsewhere. You are simply clouding the issue with an argument of your own making.

No I'm not, I'm making a very sound argument.

Black folk get all sorts of positive and negative treatment precisely because they are black, that's why it's called racism and decent folk rail against it (whilst inherently remaining racist but that's another argument.) (Someone could claim he only got clear at the start cos the whitefolk let him through, positive descrimination style for example)

Now, Old athletes are getting the same derision, it needn't follow that because someone is 70, particularly in such a sedantary pursuit as sailing dinghies on puddles that he be disadvantaged. 
It might be a problem were he an entry level candidate, but in this instance he aint.

 Your argument would be better served if you'd found a beginner with only a seasons experience and he also happened to be 70 well then you have a slam dunk.

But you haven't you are being textbook ageist - dangerous thing to do here with all us old duffers ready to round on you for ironic sport.


Edited by G.R.F. - 12 Jan 11 at 12:58pm
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steve123497 View Drop Down
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go away
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 1:14pm
Every time I've raced Fireflies at Restronguet I've been beaten by a team in their 70's. The helm won his first Nationals in Redwings in 1956, and the Firefly Nationals with his current crew in 1971. Why do they still beat me? 1) because they are more talented, 2) because they are Fitter 3) because they have more experience 4) because even after all these years, they go out training.
 
I'm sure there are other reasons, too, seeing as it is most of the fleet they leave trailing in their wake. So, does age matter? I suspect in the case of the Streaker, no. But it is possibly more relevant than skin colour.
 
It is a 12 foot boat with a fairly small sail, so I can't believe it is that much faster than any of the other similar boats in the small singlehander bracket, except in the conditions that suit it.
 
Maybe we should get a group of small singlehanders together and swap boats and play somewhere? Streaker, Solo, Byte, Lightning, Europe, Comet, British Moth, Splash/Flash. Must be more. All have handicaps within about 30 points of each other, and whilst we might not actually learn much to do with PY's it could be a fun day out, doing GRF's round robin idea. All are fairly easy boats to sail, at least to a certain standard, so we'd not have the "jumping in an MPS and falling over" problem!


Edited by Rupert - 12 Jan 11 at 2:29pm
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 1:19pm
Grumpf is right (falls over stunned at having said that)  To presume that someone's sailing skill is in decline because they are older is ridiculous.  My experience is that although I may be less fit and agile than I was in my 20s, the fact that I've pliled on another 20 + years' racing experience and thus become more knowledgeable, more than compensates.  That's why I think I sail a contender better now in my late forties than I ever did back then. 
the same, but different...

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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 1:37pm
In my experience of modern Streakers they go well across a range of conditions and I'd say even go well in waves. Only in the really light stuff do they seem to stick. There are also quite a few very handy Streaker sailors about.

The laser has a tough handicap and doesn't really have a sweet spot - though if it is really honking you stand a chance because they are easy to get up again!
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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steve123497 View Drop Down
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote steve123497 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 1:56pm
Thank you for getting this thread back on track. If any one wants to discuss prejudice in sport it would be great if you could start a new thread. I would be happy to contribute. In the mean time shall we get back to discussing the streaker, and, it seems, various other boat handicaps.
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Rupert

 
It is a 12 foot boat with a fairly small sail, so I can't believe it is that much faster than any of the other similar boats in the small singlehander bracket, except in the conditions that suit it.
 
 
A moth is about 12 feet and that has a relatively modest sail too and thats darn fast Big smile
 
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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Late starter View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by steve123497

go away

Internet forums can be funny old places. Communicating what we mean through a keyboard is hard. As it happens, like GRF,  I also read your original post and thought the way you talked about the 70 year old Streaker sailor was possibly ageist, and definitely condescending. Perhaps that wasn't what you meant, but it may explain why you appear to be getting jumped on by a few of us.

Having said that, this forum can get a bit dull so its actually pleasant when somebody new rocks up and re-opens some of these old cans of worms!
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