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Do'm View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 11:16am
Think I'll get a Streaker, how will it cope with 90 Kilo helm?
I seem to remember from talking with Steve Cockerill that it was for light people and the boat has a very light hull enabling it to accelerate very quickly. It is far more responsive than a Solo or Laser and is it not likely that someone who can capitalise on its strenghts will sail it well above its predicted PY performance? The Europe fits this bracket as well.
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Originally posted by steve123497



I am 56 years old and have been sailing since I was 11. I can assure you that my personal goals have long since been met. Smile
In all that time, however, I have never come across boat which, in my opinion, is so blatantly wrong.
I would say again that you have gone away from my initial discussion but, having now read through this thread from the beginning it seems that I am also guilty of that.
Let the discussion continue.


Perfect age for a Streaker perhaps.
If there is only one or two of any class, changing the PY is very personal.
In your position I would very seriously consider buying one and racing boat for boat with this chap.
It will at least give the committee some input on PY's for a local adjustment.
As I can't see him joining you in the Lasers!
Trouble is, the odd windy day, when the laser flies and trumps the streaker, your 70 yr old friend will probably not be out, but should his handicap still take into account windy days? What if some young 'un gets a streaker and takes it out when it is windy?

In some ways it's nicer to sail a boat where it is in its element, rather than have a good handicap allowance for one that isn't. If I sailed on my old river inland, I would not choose the 400, whatever PY it got.
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote steve123497 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

[If you are so convinced that it is all down to PY and want to convince your committee, why not demonstrate your point by borrowing an appropriate Streaker and beating the regulars. If they beat you, then at least you'll know it isn't just the PY.]


OK, however he'd have to beat me by four minutes to prove his handicap was not then giving him an unfair advantage, as we normally finish quite close to one another.
 
[Better yet, get your sailing sec to sign up to the RYA/Sailracer weekly returns scheme. That already had some impact on PY's last year, and I suspect might bring about even bigger changes this year, what with more clubs participating. That way, your sailing committee doesn't have to come up with a list of local numbers itself, the Sailracer site does it for you.]

I believe we already make returns. I hope we do, I've made enough fuss. Smile
 
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Posts: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Vronny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 11:25am
Steve, are you sure the problem's with the streaker handicap and not the laser one? At the Grafham GP a couple of weekends ago, the top 10 boats in the singlehanders were 6 phantoms, a blaze, a solo, a RS300 and a streaker. The first laser was 18th!
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 11:53am
Yep lasers have always been notoriously crap for their py. When I sailed one I always accepted that I would never do anything in a handicap race. The problem for it is that it sits just at the wrong place in the py spectrum. There is nearly always a faster or slower boat that performs well to it's py that will beat it overall. The laser is just too average to do well.
The Streaker looks like it has improved speed wise over the old version but until clubs fill in their returns objectively the py won't come down. IF they do it will just like the Phantom has. Where that leaves the older boats I don't know.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:01pm
well said james regarding misinformed purchases of lasers - happens all too often.

With regard to the older phantom, mine sits in the shed most of the time waiting for a suitably light day for it (and me) to venture out.  If such a day comes this year then I will probably ask to sail with the handicap fleet with the old pn, as opposed to the phantom fleet and their current pn.

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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by G.R.F.

[QUOTE=Steve411]


Not often anything offends me but really what different does it make that he's 70?



Oh dear, I forgot about the PC generation. Now this is as a total aside, however, when has any one ever been offended by having their correct age quoted. I mentioned his age to give a clear picture of the sailors involved and to avoid any speculation.

Not often anyone accuses me of being PC.

So now the acid test here you should apply to yourself. If he'd been black would you have mentioned it?

And there lies your answer.
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:33pm
Hmm I think that thing about the Laser is very much a salinity/buoyancy deal, they are a total Bandit on the sea and even worse now they've had a couple of point slow down presumably because of all the Laser puddle jumpers

Nothing they like more than light or very strong Breeze and chuck in some waves to surf down and bingo, three years in a row the oldest tub of a boat you could envisage won our handicap series, would still do it if he hadn't switched to a Contender.

Without Lasers, our club would be a wasteland.
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote steve123497 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by steve123497

Originally posted by G.R.F.

[QUOTE=Steve411]


Not often anything offends me but really what different does it make that he's 70?



Oh dear, I forgot about the PC generation. Now this is as a total aside, however, when has any one ever been offended by having their correct age quoted. I mentioned his age to give a clear picture of the sailors involved and to avoid any speculation.

Not often anyone accuses me of being PC.

So now the acid test here you should apply to yourself. If he'd been black would you have mentioned it?

And there lies your answer.

That is just a irrelevance.  people don't generally get slower and less agile as they get blacker. Please take your perverse logic elsewhere. You are simply clouding the issue with an argument of your own making.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 11 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by steve123497

I believe we already make returns. I hope we do, I've made enough fuss. Smile
 

The problem with annual returns is that many sailing secs merely quote the figure they've used (= RYA PY) which just helps perpetuate the existing numbers.
 
The beauty of the RYA/Sailracer scheme is that s.secs simply have to return the times from the racing each week, typically by forwarding the Sailwave files, RYA/Sailracer do the rest and some real changes of PY can come about.
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