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RS400 Vs B14?
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Menace View Drop Down
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Posts: 296 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS400 Vs B14?
    Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 7:53am
Try both before you consider buying, luckily the RS shouldn't be too much of a bother as you have the RS test centre, follow this link:
 
 
I believe that there are plenty of B14s down in the south west, think there were 4 or 5 of them the last time I was down in Plymouth and there was a good a fleet at Starcross too. Might be worth seeing if you can contact any of them through the class association website or even facebook to sse if you can get a sail on their boats. If you do a test at the RS test centre, I'd try a 200 as well as they aren't as quick but are lighter, more responsive and have a much healthier class.
 
You could buy a 200 for a year, get back into the sport and after that sell it on for what you probably bought it for and buy a B14.
 
My major concern with buying either a B14 or a 400 at the moment would be class security. The B14 is searching for a new builder, and from what I've heard are pretty close to securing something, but with a new builder may come a new boat which is either better or worse in quite a significant way. From my personal experience, Ovi make good boats, so reckon that if the boat is going to be better through a new builder, it will only be subtle things. I still think the proposed changes about the 400 are still up in the air as I've heard people recently within the class saying whether they will oppose or support the changes (outside of this forum). I personally think RS have went to a lot of time and effort to put a prototype proposed change boat together to let it lie if there is an overwhelming no vote.
 
Another option could be an 800, although it's twin trapeze it's quite an easy boat to get into. You won't require as good a crew either. Saying that though, if it gets selected as the women's skiff for 2016, you could be looking at a new rig and set of sails to put on the boat...
 
 
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BarnsieB14768 View Drop Down
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BarnsieB14768 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 8:25am
Hi, though an avid B14er, I will try to give you a balanced opinion of where I would advise you to head.
On the point of the B14, the class's future is not in doubt and secondhand prices are holding well with average turnover with strong backup from the class association. The class is expanding through Europe. With regard to builder, we are in the final stages of resolving this. We have aimed high with the qaulity, so it has been more complex, but the class should be back in build very soon. Only a handful of hulls built since Rondar started building have failed and so most boats are still competitive, hence low new build numbers.
On the class front, a lot will depend on your skill level and where you sail. Small pond and symetrical courses and not having a regular crew, ie different crew weekly, you may want to go for the RS400 as you can get away with a lot compared to the B14. If you have a lake of the size of Bough Beech (Google Earth and measure north/south) and courses that also have upwind/downwind, the B14 may be for you. The B14 is a team work boat with a 50/50 input. If you are prepared to put the initial work in, you will be more than likely get some of the best sailing you will ever experience and you will come off the water with a smile on your face no matter what the result. Having sailed most classes of boat over the last 30 years, I can confirm that the B14 is probably the most complete package I have sailed. Handles like a Merlin on steriods in light airs and in breeze a phenominum without any bad habits.
In either case, contact the class and arrange a sail with one of the local teams. Best of luck and let us know how you get on Wink
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funtimesailor View Drop Down
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Posts: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Quote funtimesailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 8:47am
This is all brilliant. Hadn't considered the 800. Will have a look around. I know the 400 is a great boat at sea but the 14? Also I like the 400 having a chute. And pros and cons in that? Will try and get a little sail before I buy for sure.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 8:53am
Hi
One question that we need to ask is how heavy are you.
I sailed a 400 for years but at 16 stone which was fine for club racing and the odd open but for a b14 would not be any good.
If in doubt by the 400 as they hold there value.
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 8:58am
once you've sailed without the chute, you realise it isn't a big deal- without it, hoists can be quicker and the spinnaker life can be longer. Even drops aren't that bad- though they take a little getting used to (one reason the boat isn't ideal if you don't have a steady crew)- and you're a lot less likely to have a "jam" on the drop- the spinnaker won't bunch up.
-_
Al
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tickler View Drop Down
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Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 9:19am
We had B14 'in the family' although I was only given a ride once. Fabulous boat but perhaps a little fragile?  Mind you seeing that boat sitting rigged on the green at Beaumauris and then watching from the cliffs as it powered past Puffin Island in the Anglesea Offshore Race a long way off......just pure speed and elegance. Yes, listen to your heart....get a B14.
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BarnsieB14768 View Drop Down
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BarnsieB14768 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 9:48am
Fragility, yes the B14 did suffer from this years ago as kit was just strong enough for the job. However, once wear and tear was taken into account kit could fail. In 2001 we started to address this and by 2004 the boat, like all, if maintained, could be sailed in most conditions and return unscathed. We have been caught out in a 40+ knot squall of Whitstable. They sent out a rib to find the bits (2008). Only to see a B14 chasing the squall line downwind in flatter water to top end 20s knots. That is why we sail the boat. Boom was slightly bent but that was all. My merlin mast would have come home in 2 - 3 bits let alone what else may have happened if another class. Buy correctly to what siuts you once you have tested the group. You'll find the 800 a high powered jag and predictable unless lumpy seas and you have to keep the pole tip high or the kite will go in and pitchpole you. The B14 is like a Lotus Exige, you can send it anywhere up to the ponit when seas become short and steep and the wings drive in and either you pitch pole backwards or forwards (seriously windy and most have never been there). Slower than an I14 on foils but as much fun and more likely to get round the course in big breeze. 400 requires less input and still a very good boat.
Sheet loads on the b14 are less than the Merlin due to less resistance through the water.
Chute/bag - bag kite lasts longer but the teamwork needs to be slicker Smile Wink
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MattHarris View Drop Down
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Posts: 94 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 11:02am
Originally posted by tickler

Mind you seeing that boat sitting rigged on the green at Beaumauris and then watching from the cliffs as it powered past Puffin Island in the Anglesea Offshore Race a long way off......just pure speed and elegance. Yes, listen to your heart....get a B14.
 
Don't know which year you were there, this year just gone was the first real open i did in the B14 and aside from a few schoolboy errors (rigging the kite and trying to gybe going up a wave) it was immense.  Probably the most fun i've had racing, combined with the 6 mile kite run from the start line well worth a go...
 
I've sailed quite a few high performance boats and nothing has matched the ease of the B14.  The wings give you that extra second to save a capsize and everything is just where it needs to be without the need for excessive amounts of string everywhere.  Having said that there is definately a skill to getting the most out of the boat and when you can get it in the groove the speed gains are incredible.
 
My previous boat was an RS400, and i did reasonably well in it at a club level and also picked up a few prizes at some local opens.  It is a good solid boat, responds well to good teamwork and has a very fair handicap across the wind ranges.  It is also a great boat for round the cans racing as the wing-wang pole opens up a greater number of offwind angles.  The main reason i swapped to the B14 is that i got tired of hiking like mad up the beats to then get passed by a B14 or 49er like i wasn't moving. 
Phantom 1175 - Alice

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tomoore1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tomoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 11:57am
Get youself down to Restronguet. It's not too far from you and there are both 400's and B14's there so you should be able to have a look and possibly even get a sail.
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oldarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 11 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by funtimesailor

currently based down Penzance but will be relocating (somewhere) near/on the east coast. i would love to race competativly. fleet size isnt an issue as long as its a good group of people. but to start with some club sailing and idealy on the sea.


thanks for the advice so far!


Hi

How far up or down the East Coast?

Brightlingsea or Wilsonian (Medway} are friendly and real dinghy clubs, and both almost on the sea!

thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
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