To many classes

I highly doubt that those boats were sailed any less than the new ones, in fact im sure they werent! I bet there were a lot of less than a year old boats at the event and unless they had been sailed every day they would be sailed less than the older boats....

At the masters events you get a lot of very very good sailors who have just been sailing their boats regularly for so long that i dont think they care if its a kg heavier than the guy next to them on the start line! Stick any of the top masters in the most clapped out old laser you could find in the dinghy pound at your club and give them a race in a nice new shiny one fresh from the factory and I think they would still give any good club sailor a thrashing, and probably a lot of the top youth sailors too! Oh and before you think i'm somehow biased here, I was one of those youths last year!

Originally posted by Neptune I'd be surprised to see a competitive laser at title level more than 3 or 4 years old.

Older Lasers...150374 was 2nd in the Apprentice masters at this year's Laser Worlds. 164667 was 7th in the masters, 153731 was 4th in the Grand masters. That was just the first world series results that came up on Google. Beware of what everyone knows: it ain't necessarily so!

Edited by JimC - 16 Dec 10 at 11:45am

Originally posted by Chris 249 LarFinn, I think you're off the beam in many classes.  A good '70-80s boat with decent second-hand sails is extremely competitive in some classes (Lasers, Tasars, etc) even at title level.  They don't cost much.

I'd be surprised to see a competitive laser at title level more than 3 or 4 years old.

Originally posted by JimC That's completely dependant on the priority you put on your boat. No flash car, no mobile phone, no downloads, no computer games, no latest gadgets, cut down on the booze and the dope... Its all very doable if you want.

Originally posted by tickler Years ago our club was sailing GP 14's. They were very suitable for the water. When Laser came along it all became GP and Laser (mainly). Interest in double handed sailing has fallen away in recent years and the GP's fell apart (literally). Lasers are expensive and tedious with many short comings. We always had a few Lightnings which went very well. Then a friend purchased a Supernova (on my recommendation) and a new age dawned. We now have 9 Novas as well as a revitalised Lightning fleet of 6 boats. Our club has morphed into a Mark Giles design club because those boats (as single handers) suit the water. We now have fleet racing again. Not me of course but there will always be someone who messes it up. Given time fleet racing will return.

In agreement here.  There's an element of 'organic evolution' at the club level and always will be, irrespective of the number of different designs out there.  What's changed in recent years is I think expectation, often expressed by those on here and SA type forums.  We're used to mass market technology in so many other areas of our lives; computers, mobiles, TV, cars etc... we are used to constantly upgrading these things and to many of us, sailing a 30, 40 or 50 year old design of boat, even if the actual craft is only 1-2 yrs old, is unfamiliar and the instant reaction is "I want someone to develop something new I want", yet, I would bet (and figures appear to bear this out) that in reality, once looked at in a bit more depth, many sailors come to a conclusion of "well, I could buy a decent Solo for the dough I have available, and that will give me club racing and an open circuit I want to be involved in"... or similar.

Yes, I'm quite sure this will prompt an avalanche of "I wouldn't sail a so-slow if it was a choice of sticking pins in my eyes" etc... type diatrybe, and I don't sail one either, but it's a popular choice and IMO one of the main reasons why newer designs haven't 'killed off' GP's, Mirrors, Fireballs, Albacores, Fireflys, Solos and others... which all continue strongly in 2010


BTW, IMO the greatest barrier to "access" is price.  Consolodation of suppliers hasn't helped bring costs down, instead fewer larger companies are charging ever higher prices.  Smaller, niche builders, have to charge higher prices because of their cost base.  What's needed is a few suppliers (blocks, masts, foils for example), who are willing to make the business-decision to change, and stick to it; charge less but sell more, sell more to the point where your "new" margin outweighs your "old" margin model.


Edited by getafix - 16 Dec 10 at 10:15am