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RS400 proposed changes
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kasey3000 View Drop Down
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Posts: 401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kasey3000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS400 proposed changes
    Posted: 16 Oct 10 at 7:13pm
It is fine to update a class, yeah make the spinnaker system better on the 400, it was always a complete pain.... but by changing the hull construction it will make all the older boats completely obsolete.
The new sails look rubbish, it looks like the vision now. When the 49er changed the mast and sails it made the boat so much better, easier to sail and a lot nicer to look at..... the proposed changes on the 400 are pointless and not necessary. They are trying to make the 400 an asymmetric merlin...... yeah, like when the wayfarer put on an asymmetric, that lasted didn't it?
 
I have sailed a range of boats, including the 200, 400 and 800..... funny thing, I always go back to non-RS boats, and stupid ideas like this remind me why.
 
I owned a 400, sold it earlier this year.....if I had one now I would be seriously hopping mad, after buying one of the newest ones I could afford....it would have been like throwing almost £5000 into a fire, glad I sold it and feel sorry for people who have just bought expensive 400's....
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Nick Peters View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 10 at 10:52pm
Menace and Kasey3000 - you clearly misunderstand the process going on here - the proposed changes are up for consultation, discussion, tweaking probable rejection over an 8 week period - PRIOR to it even going to a vote!
 
Or maybe you just hate all things RS - just mail me and rant if it helps?
 
All this was suggestedby some owners who felt the boat was looking dated in areas - and we have moved it forward with some suggestions....whatever you think of the changes, surely this is a more owner friendly process than having a £4000 rig forced on you as per 49er?
 
Kasey3000 I'm sorry that your ill-informed understanding of this has reminded you of how ghastly the 400, 200, and 800 are....the association is generally thought to be better than most, RS Sailing give more support than any other SMOD manufacturer, and the huge growth in young people sailing 200s and 800s demonstrate the appeal of the boats.
 
 
 
 
Nick


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Nick Peters View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 10 at 11:08pm
I forgot to say the changes are not performance enhansing anyway.........how can this be "pretty much obsceleting current 400" - quote from Menace.
 
The interesting thing that Menace does say (and I think I am rapidly starting to agree with him) is that SMODS perhaps should be left to sink or swim on their own merits, and a fully modern replacement for a class after say 20years might be preferable for some. He rightly mentions the Vareo/100 as an example:  Had RS Sailing suggested updating the Vareo in any way, I suspect we would have been hauled over the coals, but introduce a successful replacement and we are generally applauded.
 
thing here is replacing the RS400 would have to be done after I'm gone... - it would be like cutting our right arm off....this has been an interesting week - and it has got to be said that - as I predicted - nothing will change in the end for the 400, but better to find out the appetite out there than just sticking your head in the sand - and I still applaud the owners who convinced us to embark on this.
Nick


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AndrewLB View Drop Down
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Posts: 109 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AndrewLB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 10 at 11:57pm
Blimey, so much anger going on here and I still can't exactly work out why. It's only SEVEN days since the test boat emerged at HISC and only a handful of people have sailed it, not many more have had a good look at it yet everyone seems to have really strong opinions on it (nearly all from people who haven't actually seen the thing!).

The idea of refreshing or updating things isn't without precedent; didn't laser change the sail cloth weight after a few years? That really did change the whole shooting match in terms of performance. The 49er rig case has also been highlighted, so it's not unheard of for associations (and let's not forget that this is association led, not manufacturer) to investigate options. As a parallel example; car manufacturers update the specs of their models on an annual basis with fairly sizeable changes in spec and equipment without consultation, unlike this case. As suggested by Ian's comment above, it's quite funny that people are having a dig at RS for tweaking bits on a 17 year boat when laser dropped half of their range overnight because sales had dipped!! How long did they support the EPS and Vortex for? (I'll ignore the topper boats as that's a separate issue).

Oh and whoever mentioned turning it into an asymmetric merlin; didn't Phil Morrison test out the design of the 400 by whacking a bowsprit on a merlin? I'm sure I've seen the photo somewhere (think it was a y&y profile of phil a few years ago).
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 9:22am
Most of the anger is from people who aren't RS400 sailors though Andrew. It's "angry ranter on the internet" syndrome...
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 11:24am
I fully support Nick Peters comments.
Well said sir.

Other posters, fine get it off your chest,
but engage brain first.

Oh... and as alstorer says, most of the naysayers aren't even
RS400 sailors.
Remarkable.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 12:36pm
+1 to the 3 posts above.
 
Good on the class for wanting to make the change, good on RS for being supportive.
 
There will be some 'short term pain' if/when the changes are approved but this will always happen when you change anything (new Laser control lines?).
 
Personally if you read what has been said and proposed they are not trying to make the boat any faster than it already is. They are trying to make it look better and be easier to sail (especially with the kite, I never got on with that when I had a go a few years back).
 
A lot of OD and SMOD classes could learn a lot from the way RS and the RS Class Association conduct themselves (and Blaze Class and their builder Cirrus).
 
NOTE: I am not saying they are perfect but they are much better than a lot of others.
Paul
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 12:41pm
Kite changes?

You'll never please all of the people all of the time but from the outside looking in I welcome the concept of modernising SMODs to keep them fresh. The new jib looks naff to me, but that's an easily sorted detail. Not sure how I'd feel of I was an owner, but non-owner views count too if you want to sell outside the existing group of owners.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 1:38pm
Ah- I thought I'd missed something and JimC was getting his way!

Edited by Peaky - 17 Oct 10 at 1:40pm
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MattK View Drop Down
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Posts: 221 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MattK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 10 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Nick Peters

I forgot to say the changes are not performance enhansing anyway.........how can this be "pretty much obsceleting current 400" - quote from Menace.


I am not sure how you can claim there will be no performance difference, radically changing the shape of the main will completely alter the twist profile needed at different wind strengths and with it alter the induced drag etc, the likely outcome will be the old sail faster in some conditions and the new one faster in others, and regardless of the technical aero element the whole way the rig responds to gusts will alter, the batten positions for tuning will alter...


Edited by MattK - 17 Oct 10 at 1:52pm
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