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    Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 9:42pm
Agreed. The jib looks horrid - I notice the XI had a similar jib from Hyde, so presumably it's their latest thing. The main looks okay, but is the cloth as durable? As to whether the changes are sensible or necessary, I suppose if they don't update someone else may introduce a 400 beater (Icon with a kite?). If the 4000 had modernised perhaps the Alto would never have come to be?
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 9:53pm

Not a very successful job of editing the jib, but never mind eh.
I tweaked the logo just for merlin boy (next post) took the sail numbers off and tweaked the roach a bit compared to earlier version.

Edited by JimC - 12 Oct 10 at 11:06pm
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 9:57pm
And the kite appears to be stuck under the sail numbers....Nice Jim lol

Edited by Merlinboy - 13 Oct 10 at 6:28am
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 12:21am
Oh the joy of diverse opinion! - 2 days of sailing the boat and we had dozens of positive comment and a few pics on here and it is ripped to shreds! Still that is what is needed to gather opinion.
 
I'm sure a few weeks of consultation and some tweaking of ideas and there should be something solid to vote on. Class's choice either way. Some positive ideas would always help from this pool of free thinkers - how would you react to a request for some straight forward retrofittable improvements and more modern looking sails - and yes Jim I know you think the main is too big! But we would need to keep it the same size really.
Nick


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Posts: 586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slippery Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 8:25am
Nick,
 
What about keeping the mast upright and moving a bit further back on a reach - it might help!?!?!
 
I'd suggest that the only thing the roach does is add a bit more power for light winds. If you want to have a really automatic rig you've gotta have either twin spreaders or a really tapered mast, the latter of which is only good for a narrow range of crew weight.
Pass the skiff, man!
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 8:47am
when asked back in the summer why not experiment with a new look fore and aft sailplan within existing areas and performance, I sat down with Mike Lennon....conclusions were...
 
1. modern laminate - better visibility, less cost, fresher look.
2. square top - try to make the same area more "automatic". Maybe more efficient - but that might end up faster.
3. Jib radial cut for greater longevity, Huge window for less crashes.
4. More adjustable mast ram for optimising to your weight more easily around the track.
 
the pole and single line system (the tapered carbon makes this work so it is realistic) is a recent idea and simply aligns the boat with modern systems. this should make life loads easier for the crew. Lets see if people agree as they sail the boat.
 
Carbon boom is just pleasant - lighter through tacks and gybes, wont corrode, and they are more acheivable now costwise. the 300 class is keen for one i gather, and it could be the same with adifferent front end. It made a real difference to the 700 and 100. 
Nick


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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 9:07am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Some of my concerns are:
The mods are not freestanding but inter-relate.
For example if you break your carbon pole, will your ali one work with the new ejector system?
The boom looks shorter, so if you break an ali boom, do you have to buy a whole new rig?
Will old jibs work well with the new main?
Is the bend control necessary to get the most out of the new main?
Do we really want to be moving toward adjusting the rig more around the course?
Is that changing the character of the boat?
 
the ali pole would work but with more friction: this was tried 15 years ago, but parked then as it was thought a tapered pole was required.
Boom is meant to be same length - foot length the same.
Jib is the same - just radial cut and big window....
Bend control would help get most out of both mains - but only if you use it right!
Do we want to be adjusting the rig more? - well that is for you guys (the owners) to decide. We are only chucking ideas out there. Idea is to broaden appeal and weight band?
 
Also we are aware the current deck control is not a well liked bit of kit.
Nick


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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 9:24am
I had a tapered alloy pole on my Cherub over twenty years ago... I don't know what relative prices of tapered alloy to carbon would be though. It had started life as an alloy sailboard mast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

when asked back in the summer why not experiment with a new look fore and aft sailplan within existing areas and performance, I sat down with Mike Lennon....conclusions were...
 
1. modern laminate - better visibility, less cost, fresher look.
2. square top - try to make the same area more "automatic". Maybe more efficient - but that might end up faster.
3. Jib radial cut for greater longevity, Huge window for less crashes.
4. More adjustable mast ram for optimising to your weight more easily around the track.
 
the pole and single line system (the tapered carbon makes this work so it is realistic) is a recent idea and simply aligns the boat with modern systems. this should make life loads easier for the crew. Lets see if people agree as they sail the boat.
 
Carbon boom is just pleasant - lighter through tacks and gybes, wont corrode, and they are more acheivable now costwise. the 300 class is keen for one i gather, and it could be the same with adifferent front end. It made a real difference to the 700 and 100. 
Hi Nick,
Can you confirm that there would be NO changes to the "Wing Wang" arrangement or is that part of the suggestion too?
In other words, the only change to the spinny pole setup would be a carbon replacement?
 
Timg
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 10 at 9:41am
Originally posted by charlie1019


As another outsider, the sails above look sailing school like to me and would put me off joining the class - think it might be the jib that does it!??

To me, the current rig looks more appealing if I was to say which looked best.
And all that black trim on the main will look damned silly on a silver anodised mast, which is what most of us would be retrofitting to.
As it is, the 400 is quite distinctive. On the water they stand out from all the copy-cat SMOD rigs as well as the older classes. I think that's worth something, it gets us noticed in a handicap race. It means that a visitor to our club instantly sees that the place to be in the fast fleet is in a 400.
If half the fleet changes its look, that will not happen.
I use older sails for club racing or windy events, so it will be some years before everyone is the same again.
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