RS400 proposed changes

Originally posted by G.R.F. Why no weight reduction? What is it with dinghy land that wants us to keep putting our backs out hauling the things around. Commercially I would have thought stronger stiffer lighter would be precisely a reason for buying a new boat, or have the Phantom Class got it wrong? Unless you make the old boats obsolete, nobody is going to rush to buy a new one. Not I should point out do I have the remotest interest in this boat, it's just as usual my three happorth, my pal has one, think he might jump if it had something 'special' going on. Are they not boats that male/female teams like to  use, another reason for it to be lighter.

But if you DO make old boats obsolete, why bother to buy a new one? Without strong and equal fleets, and a strong PY, why buy a new RS400 rather than a different boat (unless you are one of those strange people who like a gear advantage in a class where they aren't supposed to exist?).

As others have said, much of the point of sailing a SMOD is the fact that they are (or should be) all equally fast.  Take away that, and you lose most of the point of sailing a SMOD.

Changing stick-ons or things that don't affect boatspeed in normal conditions is one thing; changing basic hullspeed is, IMHO, another.  And we had an interesting experience in the Tasars before the hull weight was brought in, when some boats were about 61kg.  I did three races on my brother's 73.5kg boat.  In a 76 boat national title fleet, including world champs in 'Balls and Tasars, we lead around the top mark twice and were about 5th at the bottom mark each time.  We climbed back to third by the finish, but the thing that really struck me was that the lighter boats gained about 50-100 metres down the reaches. That WAS enough to be totally dispiriting if you were the one dropping from first, but it was NOT enough to be really noticeable to the crew without another boat to pace against.

It illustrated to me that if you drop the weight, you can tear apart a boat (as a top-line racing machine) without improving the perception of speed, either from aboard or ashore.  The Tasars brought in a minimum weight and the issue of uneven boatspeed just about vanished. 

Personally, I think that supporting a class rule that destroys the competitive and resale value of another person's boat is something akin to robbery.  They purchased an object that had certain values (in this case, competitive performance) and it's hard to morally justify someone else taking that value away.

Some changes can of course be made, like consumables. Or you could compensate older boats in some other ways, by relaxing some other rules for old boats.

Whether SMODs HAVE to upgrade major non-consumables to stay alive seems unproven.  The Laser hull has basically not changed and it's not exactly a dead class in most places in the world.  Squibs, Fireflies and other strict ODs don't seem to change hulls a lot and seem to do pretty damn well.


Edited by Chris 249 - 12 Oct 10 at 11:24am

I'd be interested as to the reaction on the class forum...

Originally posted by alstorer I'd be interested as to the reaction on the class forum...

There is no Forum as such.

Having recently bought a 'mid-range' second hand 400 at around the £3k mark the prospect of splashing out half the boat's value again to be able to compete at opens does not appeal.
I quite simply cannot believe any claims that these changes won't make a difference to speed around the race track. Arguments that it makes the boat more 'user friendly' are just a thin cover for faster through manouvers (hoists / drops), so.... faster round the track.

New sails - about the only bit that I would go along with - you expect to buy new sails if you want to keep a boat competitive. Only those that have recently got new rags loose too much. I was considering new sails - think I'll hold off for a bit......

Kite system - if they can make a retrofittable system that workes like the 800 then great. However isn't the biggest problem that the 'ole in the front is too small?

Carbon pole / boom - why?? Ok slightly lighter, but how would a carbon pole be smoother?

New resin for hulls - again whats the point - my old boat in the mid 500's was still stiff and light despite being 15 years old.

Main / kite sizes - the boat is very nicely balanced as both a w/l and round the can machine. Why make it only able to do w/l?

Originally posted by turnturtle