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RS400 proposed changes |
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phil wright 
Newbie 
Joined: 25 Mar 08 Location: Cowes Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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 Topic: RS400 proposed changesPosted: 11 Oct 10 at 5:34pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 5:35pm |
I never pulled the retrieve in through that turning block but grabbed it straight from the kite, so when I got to the kite there was no interruption. Just need to be a bit wary of pulling/ripping it through the kicker blocks on starboard gybe drops. |
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Jamesd
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 01 Feb 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 377 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 8:25pm |
Not at all for 'sales figures', this was the CA taking it to LDC not the other way around. LDC needed persuasion that the boat needed updating. The mainsail is not too big either, if you set it up right, the 400 has one of the most broad weight ranges of the dinghies out there. If you found it "heavy on the hands" you are clearly not sailing it correctly. i noticed someone mentioned the mast.........in an ideal world it would be carbon etc, but there is only so much you can change at one time. a carbon rig is a massive performance change at a large cost and asking 1000 boats to switch is too much. In an ideal world this would have been considered 17 years ago, but instead the boat was designed as it was, which proved to be very successful. The issue is, that the boat is looking VERY dated with sailcloth chunky bits of scaffolding etc. It was believed that it needed bringing into the 21st century and this is what has been proposed. Obviously the main objective is to get numbers to events. currently the boat is getting 20ish boats to opens, if the class can get ten more then im sure it will gain momentum. it is by no means a dying class, but does have the potential to be in a few years if things arent changed. whether the proposals will do this is another matter. |
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maxibuddah
Really should get out more
Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 8:28pm |
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You could always the crappy Laser trick of painting or anodising if you're keen, masts black. Will look like carbon but one hell of a lot cheaper. Look especially nice when the paint starts to flake off.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Paramedic
Really should get out more
Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 9:22pm |
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If I had a 400 i think i'd have mixed feelings about this.
Vinylester hull. No way. Some of the oldest boats in the class are in the best condition (Arguably the best built) and armed with new sails and in the right hands would still be competetive at the highest level. How many racing dinghies are built out of this stuff? How many repairers stock vinylester? If you're going todo something like this it's got to be epoxy or leave alone.
Deck control. No objection provided it's retrofittable.
The existing mainsails seem to have a very long competetive life however dated they be percieved to look. The technora based Hyde cloth is very thin and lightweight and in spite of the sail being fully battened it cannot be anything like as durable as the existing cloth. Sails however are a consumable item and will need replacing anyway.
The boom. Carbon ones break too,for the same reasons. Change for the sake of it, but it will not significantly change the speed of the boat.
The pole. Again, i don't see any real benefit for going carbon. I'm pretty sure a single line system could be done with the existing kit. Another red herring change that will make little differance.
Single line system for the kite. I'd have no objection to this one.
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RS400atC
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 9:52pm |
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From the current class rules:
1.3.23 The spinnaker halyard and downhaul lines may be continuous or separate and may be combined with the sprit launching line to form a single line operating system; their routing and operation aft of the mast is no restricted, additional blocks or fairleads may be fitted as required"" I've not noticed any boats with this. Experience anyone?
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RS400atC
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 10:08pm |
I know I don't read or remember everything that comes my way, perhaps someone can point out where it was? Or are we talking about a small minority who are members of the CA.
It does not figure in CA minutes either.
The bombshell this morning comes 'jointly' from RS Sailing and the executive committee.of the RS CA. (One of whom amusingly is offering for sale new-old stock main, jib, boom, bowsprit on the for sale section of the website.)
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English Dave
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 Aug 06 Location: Northern Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 682 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 10:10pm |
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We also have this in catamarans. When regatta sailing on W/L courses you can steal a second or so by launching the tack of the spinnaker at the top mark, then hauling the rest of the kite at the spreader mark. There's also less friction involved. So separate lines are good.
But for RTC racing a single line is so much easier. There's enough going on on a small race course. One line up, one line down. Simple
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Iain C
Really should get out more
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1113 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 10:28pm |
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Sorry. Just don't get it.
Either, sail a restricted class such as a Fireball, which can have spars made out of XYZ material, sails that must be such and such shape but can be made by whoever and out of whatever, and it's up to you how you rig it, bend the mast, get the kite up and down, and make it go quickly... Or... Have a devleopment class with strictish rules such as a Cherub...it's gotta be this long, measure here/there on the hull, your pole can't stick out anymore than this, and your mast can only be this high, and your max sail area is x. What on earth is the point in buying into a one-design class where suddenly all this kind of stuff appears? I would be pretty peeved if I was an owner of a new "old" boat! IMHO the whole thing is a thinly disguised attempt to make the boats look better so they sell more. Ironically if RS had been freer with thier rules beforehand, I would quite possibly be sailing an 800 now with the missus, as they are not silly fast, and are a well thought out boat that is entertaining upwind and down, with sensible sheet loads up front. But, as you are not allowed to unthread you mainsheet from the swivel jammer and give it to the crew, I don't sail one. I just don't see the point of the crew dangling there and doing nothing upwind when they could have the main and drive the boat. And I don't get the argument about the rule trying to stop "gorilla" crews...crews have two arms, a busy helm has one. Sorry to say it but I assume this is a case of RS telling me lots of good reasons for spending money on updating an RS400, whilst also telling me who is allowed to touch the mainsheet in "my" boat. Unless I've got all this wrong and I can buy the new 400 sails from any loft and carry out these deck mods myself? |
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MikeBz
Really should get out more
Joined: 21 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 10:53pm |
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If one-design classes never changed or updated themselves then plenty of the long-standing and enduring ones would look pretty sad and would probably have fallen by the wayside long ago.
IMHO the 400 rig is looking seriously dated and is well due for an update. Keep it fresh and don't make all the existing boats completely redundant, it's what most CAs have done with their boats from time to time over the decades. The fact that it's manufacturer run leads to accusations of profiteering which couldn't be levelled at classes which are independent of their builder - so what.
Mike
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