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RS400 proposed changes

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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS400 proposed changes
    Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:40pm

Alloy boom £229

Alloy sprit £174
Jib £319
main £ 684
 
Thats £1406 in current format (alloy)
I should imagine there will be a reduction in the cost of a new main sail (ala 300) but i would think its going to cost best part of £2k especially if they are looking at new kites as well!!!
Is it worth bothering with on an older boat??  400's tend to start (for an old knacker) at around £1500 now!
 
I bet a new 400 is the best part of £10k, you can get a very, very nice merlin for that money and play development with the big boys!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailpics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:41pm

I bought older 400 earlier this year, moving from a phantom.

I always wanted a 400 but there was a shortage of crews at the time but now that's getting easier  I made the switch.

One thing I've found difficult especially with teaching new crews is the kite. It's like "pull the yellow one, now the red one, no! the other red one!" and dropping it is even harder.

As has been mentioned in the original post, you don't need to make all the changes at one time. I'll probably change the kite system first and do the other things as required.

My 2p

Richard

P.S. I have no problems with the main size, but the kite could be bigger :)



Edited by sailpics - 11 Oct 10 at 3:44pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Other than the deck/thwart moulding changes I'm guessing the rest of the changes are retro-fittable? If so then it gives a fairly good upgrade path so keeping older boats racing (and generating some additional sales for LDC) rather than splitting the fleet like a weight reduction would. I'd vote for all these changes (if I'd paid my subs Wink).
But if you won't pay £39 for your subs, are you about to buy a new main,  jib, boom, bowsprit and mast ram?
There do seem to be a lot of RS400 owners who spend plenty on their boats but don't join the CA, so maybe you would? Or would it make people think there was no point going to an open meeting with an old style main and alloy spars? At the moment you can join the CA for a weekend for £10, this is excellent value and lets club sailors see what they are missing in open meeting fleets.
I really didn't intend (re)starting an argument about joining a CA (some people are still kinda touchy about this subject eh?). Actually I only bought the boat recently and do intend joining next year.
 
I have however spent almost as much on new sails/spares as the boat itself so think I would do a planned upgrade. My perception is that I would gain more from the kit (even if it were purely pschological) than the association.
I'm not touchy about the CA thing, just struggle to understand some people's priorities. My perception is that the coaching makes the CA  excellent value. I can understand not joining in your first year.
I can understand not wanting to (or being able to) spend money full stop.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by sailpics

One thing I've found difficult especially with teaching new crews is the kite. It's like "pull the yellow one, now the red one, no! the other red one!" and dropping it is even harder.

 

P.S. I have no problems with the main size, but the kite could be bigger :)

I don't think the kite system will make drops much different.
What could be simpler than 'pull the release, pull the downhaul as fast as you can'?
 
As for hoists, I suggest making the kite halyard unique in colour. There is no quick cure for the crew pulling the retrieval ine instead of the halyard unless you splice the string so the retrieval end is a different colour!
You can of course pull the halyard from the back of the boat.
Maybe we should just lead the pole ejector to where the helm can do it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Maybe we should just lead the pole ejector to where the helm can do it?
My first 400 (a few years ago now) had a mod to do this (with a block suspended between the bases of the MS hoop) and I really liked it but reading the class rules recently made me realise this was probably illegal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Merlinboy

Alloy boom £229

Alloy sprit £174
Jib £319
main £ 684
 
Thats £1406 in current format (alloy)
I should imagine there will be a reduction in the cost of a new main sail (ala 300) but i would think its going to cost best part of £2k especially if they are looking at new kites as well!!!
Is it worth bothering with on an older boat??  400's tend to start (for an old knacker) at around £1500 now!
 
I bet a new 400 is the best part of £10k, you can get a very, very nice merlin for that money and play development with the big boys!


Yes, but that ~10k would be the limit of your spending on a 400, beyond comparable items like replacement sails. MR front-of-fleet competitiveness may well require further begging at the feet of the bank manager.  Plus, for me, the MR's development since the launch of the 400 has now made them vastly superior, some of these changes to the 400 may help narrow the gap but more importantly will prolong the life of the 400 which is an excellent boat in it's own right.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailpics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:44pm
 
Originally posted by RS400atC

   
I don't think the kite system will make drops much different.
What could be simpler than 'pull the release, pull the downhaul as fast as you can'?
Probably my old boat and re-learning a two handed boat after all the years of single or > 2 handed handed boats! Last time I sailed an asymmetric was an H22 or a sunfast 40!  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dopamine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 4:46pm
What could be simpler than 'pull the release, pull the downhaul as fast as you can'?
 
Err, you've forgotten the next bit:
 
"Get on your knees and then reach as far up the bow as you can, grab the kite in two big handfalls and pull it into the boat. Then throw it back up towards the pointy end and resume sailing".
 
It's a horrible retrieve but it has the advantage that random failures can occur at almost any time to anyone. A new, slick system will condem older boats to a sub fleet. Also, are the wing wangs staying?
 
Quite glad I didn't get new sails this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by dopamine

What could be simpler than 'pull the release, pull the downhaul as fast as you can'?
 
Err, you've forgotten the next bit:
 
"Get on your knees and then reach as far up the bow as you can, grab the kite in two big handfalls and pull it into the boat. Then throw it back up towards the pointy end and resume sailing".
 
It's a horrible retrieve but it has the advantage that random failures can occur at almost any time to anyone. A new, slick system will condem older boats to a sub fleet. Also, are the wing wangs staying?
 
Quite glad I didn't get new sails this year.
I don't understand how a carbon pole will change any of that?
(except if it splinters when it smacks into the deck strut in front the mast!)
 
Only cure for what you describe so eloquently is either superhuman crew (as an upgrade to 'long suffering') or a nice long kite sock as per RS800. Doesn't have the image factor of a carbon protruberance though, does it!
I think we are allowed a bit of bungie to do the 'throw it up the pointy end' bit?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dopamine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 5:18pm

Don't really fancy the splintered end of a carbon pole contacting the crews ankle either, but at least it should come in travelling faster than the current piece of scaffolding.

We sailed an L4K last week and even that monster "single line" system was less hassle than the current 400 set up.
 
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