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Laying the windward mark
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laying the windward mark
    Posted: 08 Jul 10 at 6:52pm
That's right, and 2nd leeward mark should be further downtide of 1st leeward mark.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 10 at 4:46pm

....down tide.... in the direction the tide is going. Here's a rough and ready doodle

(They boat going for the right hand mark has cheated and gone the wrong side of the mark.....there is a protest going in )

 

done"

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Posts: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Barty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 10 at 1:06pm

Originally posted by gordon

beat should be set downtide (looking up the beat) of the sailor's wind

Surely this should be beat set uptide (looking up the beat)?  If the windward mark was downtide then you would just sail on the tack that lets you crab across to the mark.......or am I not understanding Gordon's comment?? 
For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 10 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by patj

One solution for clubs would be that used at Frensham Pond where they have fixed club marks and a course pre-defined by the "experts" for each possible wind direction and sometimes strength. So there is the NE course, the S course and so on and each gives a good mix of beats, reaches and runs. All the RO has to do is identify the prevailing wind direction.

That does seem a sensible option on lakes, provided there are no other objecting water users. Can't do it on the sea (where we are) unfortunately.

That aside, here's some 1959 pictures you might enjoy patj:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37279784@N02/sets/7215761726850 4336/
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 10 at 2:03pm
One solution for clubs would be that used at Frensham Pond where they have fixed club marks and a course pre-defined by the "experts" for each possible wind direction and sometimes strength. So there is the NE course, the S course and so on and each gives a good mix of beats, reaches and runs. All the RO has to do is identify the prevailing wind direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by JimC

  Its why a lot of folk drop out of crewing the faster boats when the big birthdays start rolling around...

I'm not in a particulary large or fast boat and I still know what you mean

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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by GK.LaserII

...I didn't fancy a hoist, gybe and drop on such a short leg. The previous leg was too tight for the spinny...

Its one of the subtleties of course setting... In club racing at least you should aim to have only one hoist and drop per lap if the crew make the right decisions (and wind shifts haven't made a nonsense of your course). Reason is that the hoists and drops are the things that really take it out of the more mature forward hand energy wise. Its why a lot of folk drop out of crewing the faster boats when the big birthdays start rolling around...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 10 at 12:41pm

As a footnote:

Asking around it seems that expectations of a quality club course vary quite considerably (as I would expect) but generally it seems that younger competetive sailors go to opens to satisfy their need for good racing and aren't too bothered about the club course. Some of the older sailors who don't do the opens (anymore) and who are just as competetive seem to be fussier obout the club course.......so I suppose it depends on whether you depend on opens or club racing for your yearly fix.

.......as a coincidence we had a "P" shaped course this week with the shorter leg being a run, conditions would have let me plane if I did the angles but I didn't fancy a hoist, gybe and drop on such a short leg. The previous leg was too tight for the spinny..........the cons of a symmy (or the cons of being a lazy bugger). Very enjoyable races though.

 



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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 6:29pm

Originally posted by JimC

I've come to the (controversial) conclusion that if you do that (its traditional at my club too) the almost inevitable result is that you will get a fetch on every lap because if the wind swings one way one will be a fetch, if the other way the other one will be unless the angles are so close to each other they have no practical effect anyway.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about courses at my club, and although I'm sure noone agrees with me, the conclusion I've come to (for the moment: probably change my mind after I get to try it!) is that a good option for medium sized inland venues would be a lower case d shaped course: effectively a sausage on top of a triangle, with a gate/start at the top of the triangle. The triangle would have legs about 2/3rds length of the sausage, and you'd look to aggressively move the windward mark in a radius round the gate to cope with windshifts, but leave the triangle unaltered no matter what. Ideally one leg of the triangle would be a good spinnaker reach, one too shy for kites, and one a beat.
The sketch shows what I'd aim for in the centre, and the effect of 45 degree shifts on the triangle each side.



Of course you won't be able to fit that in at a lot of smaller (physically) clubs...

I like your thinking Jim however at Hunts we can't fit those kinds of courses in unless the wind is from a prticular direction so we generally end up doing a tour of the lake throughout the race.

I have found that with a little care when setting the course (and watching to see if the wind is shifting in a consistent direction then having 2 beats at slightly different angles can work well, you can build the rest of your course round that (on our puddle).

Good input though, were our lake bigger I would be very tempted to try it. I have sailed in P and inverse P courses at a couple of nationals and they were enjoyable (I believe the Scorpion class have this written in to their nationals format so they don;t always get old olympic courses).
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 10 at 1:55pm

Originally posted by JimC


and when you've struggled with all that and a 45 degree windshift 5 minutes after the start some little **** comes up after the race and tells you what a crap course you set, and how much better the race management is at Weymouth...

Too right, the first time I was OOD I didn't get it right and ended up getting criticised publicly on an open forum (Club Forum). Not a real prob for me because I can give better than I get. Some are more sensitive though...Definitely not constructive.

I am thinking of drafting (with the help of those more experienced) some electronic text for advice on our website though.



Edited by GK.LaserII
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