New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: The RS400 Rumours thread.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The RS400 Rumours thread.
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1213141516 20>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The RS400 Rumours thread.
    Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 11:09am
I hope you're not counting me in the SMOD bashing camp.... or vice-versa. I've sailed both, owned both and will continue to do so...  this started out as an interesting thread about possibilities for the RS400 going forward, perhaps there was an implication that the boat is a bit 'tired' but frankly, as many have said, a SMOD is a snap-shot in time as far as design is concerned, I was wandering what the impact of opening up sail maker choice would be, Mr Peters has provided a very simple answer to that, for RS  "income from sails and spares is critical", far as I'm concerned nuff said, they own the IP, it's their call, those on here expecting RS to get into it about various ideas they have for the class beyond that are kidding themselves
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 11:11am

Sailing a SMOD and buying 3rd party sails smacks of having your cake and eating it...

I would have thought that the 400 with Rosster sails was devalued by more than the saving on the sails? I also find the attitude that club racing/handicap racing is less important that circuit racing very patronising and myopic.
Back to Top
Mikey 14778 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 298 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mikey 14778 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 11:17am
I disagree Rick, it's not SMOD bashing at all (at least, not my bit of it). I'm only interested in putting the case that
just because a bloke buys a cheap SMOD and wants to sail it, that doesn't mean he's going to stump up big money for new
sails or join the CA. He bought the boat, not the SMOD concept.

This isn't even a SMOD issue really, there's plenty of Fireballers who are not members of their CA and are technically
out-of-class as a result. I can think of at least one boat at my club which wouldn't measure either. But we choose to
embrace these guys because they still contribute to our enjoyment of sailing our chosen boats simply by being there.

If Rooster sails make it easier for budget sailors (who were mostly not class legal anyway due to not being in the CA) to
compete, then IMHO it's good for the class. Which is not the same thing as being good for LDC BTW.
Fireball 14778 - 'Cruel and Unusual'
Draycote Water, fantastic !
Back to Top
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 11:36am
What are peoples thoughts on Replica sails for 'out of
manufacture' SMODs?

Is buying authentic 4K sails from Sailboats.co.uk helping
the class or just Sailboats?
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 11:41am

The replica sails when it comes to the Laser class has been done to death a number of times.

Suffice to say I am currently a Laser sailor, i sail at my home club only. When club sailing I use a replica sail. When sailing away from the club or attending the club open meeting I use a genuine sail and ensure my boat is class legal.

I have onwed a different class of SMOD and I did not even consider buying a replica sail for that (not that they were available anyway). Why not I heard some people say, because I could see where my money was going and I knew that sail would be good for several years of use. As we all know and accept a Laser sail is only really competitive for 1 season (if that).

The view on this is polarised. The sooner the Laser class develops a new sail the better. There is a development program that is ongoing but the class is unlikely to change the design until after the next olympic cycle. There are rumours the price will drop as well (how true these are I do not know). The main gain will be a longer life though which is what the Laser owners want.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Mikey 14778 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 298 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mikey 14778 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 12:18pm
The bloke who buys the cheap RS400 and only sails it on the local pond probably figures that the CA didn't have his money last
year and it won't miss not having it this year. And with maybe only 150 out of 1000 or so RS400 owners being in the CA, I
guess a lot of people are thinking the same.

I don't personally like the way that CAs come to represent only their members rather than the majority of the class, and I
think Rick demonstrated very neatly that it doesn't have to be that way. But I guess that's how it is with the RS400s as with
Fireballs and so many others. So in reality, the bloke with the cheap RS400 has no chance of affecting the price of new sails,
and in any case he wants them now, not in 18 months time. So he buys Roosters or he buys secondhand, it's up to him.

Either way round, I wouldn't turn him away if he wanted to come and race and I was the RS400 FC. I'd figure that maybe in a
few years he might be so into his sailing that he would trade up to newer and fully class legal kit. I've seen it happen
plenty of times.

IMHO it's up to the CAs and the manufacturers to win our business by demonstrating genuine value for money. If LDC sails are
genuinely good value for money then they've got nothing to fear from Rooster stuff, which will always be at a disadvantage by
virtue of not be the 'proper' item. So why get worked up about it ?

Back at the CA, arguments along the lines of 'we minimise your depreciation' don't cut any ice. There's not a lot that a CA
can do for the bloke with the cheap boat who doesn't travel, but maybe getting a better deal on sails might be one thing.
Discount on sails for CA members then, or free CA membership with every sail purchased ? It's not rocket science.
Fireball 14778 - 'Cruel and Unusual'
Draycote Water, fantastic !
Back to Top
Nick Peters View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 08 Feb 06
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 12:24pm

Mikey, couple of points to clarify matters:

1. Summer offer on RS400 sails is for Class  association members - so your last comments are spot on:

2. You do not need to be a member of the RS Association for club racing - only circuit and champs - and only one person in the boat at that. It is not as draconian as having to have a certificate .... so actually maybe not as bad from your point of view as the Fireball? Each Association is different and has baggage associated with history, I guess.

3. Any rule change has to have the agreement of both RS Sailing and a majority vote of the RS Class Association. thus both are equal stakeholders in the class as discussed earlier.

Nick. 

 



Edited by Nick Peters
Nick


Back to Top
Late starter View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Feb 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Mikey 14778


IMHO it's up to the CAs and the manufacturers to win our business by demonstrating genuine value for money. If LDC sails are
genuinely good value for money then they've got nothing to fear from Rooster stuff, which will always be at a disadvantage by
virtue of not be the 'proper' item. So why get worked up about it ?

That's probably the single most sensible post in this entire thread IMHO, well said.
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 1:17pm

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Mikey 14778



I don't personally like the way that CAs come to represent only their
members rather than the majority of the class


...the single dumbest thing I read on this thread. A Class Association is
a membership body,e it's sole purpose it to represent its members! If a group of
owners decide to set up a counter association, even informally via a forum
rabble, then this is counterproductive for the whole class. If the Class
Association doesn't offer what you perceive you want from it, challenge it
and tell it what it needs to do!

Put it another way, perhaps I'll start sailing at Draycote again, of course
I'm not willing pay any membership subs, as of today I've decided I don't
see the value in membership subs at Draycote. Of course, I'm more than
happy to forgo any official voting privileges, whatever, I'm like really cool
because I'm so like anti-establishment in my approach to sailing and I
pay enough council tax and George Osbourne's about to shaft me, so I'm
f**ked if I'm going to be told what to do, or what to pay, by the b**tard
sailing community... besides I'm just a local sailor looking for economic
sailing, I'm not hurting anyone. f**k the rest of the club members- if
they want to pay that's their problem. I'll leave the important bit of
keeping the whole show on the road, (and the paying for it) to the other
buggers... now I appreciate you're not a committee member anymore
Mikey, but you're certainly well regarded and as you're one of the mugs
continuing to pay (how foolish might I add!) please could you ask the
'powers that be' (yep, those 'autocratic types', you know those that claim
to give up their time for the benefit of everyone else, all I see them do is
either sail 49ers well or make 300s scream; some can even windsurf better
than me, the c*nts) anyway, please ensure they still represent my
interests with the RYA, Severn Trent Water, fellow club sailors, visiting
classes, caterers, cleaners, the plumber who fixes the showers when
they're bust and the miserable f**k who shut the gate early last wednesday

... good oh, jolly nice of you, thanks. Sailor-on-a-budget not hurting anyone.

I think you've either missed the point or your medication is wearing off?

CA's generally represent nationals and circuit sailors more than club sailors or non-racing owners. In fact many of them have high among their purposes declared as 'to run the national championships...' and so forth.

The thing is, I don't hear CA hierarchy being overly concerned with atrracting membership from owners who don't compete in their events. In Rs or other classes. 
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by Late starter

Originally posted by Mikey 14778


IMHO it's up to the CAs and the manufacturers to win our business by demonstrating genuine value for money. If LDC sails are
genuinely good value for money then they've got nothing to fear from Rooster stuff, which will always be at a disadvantage by
virtue of not be the 'proper' item. So why get worked up about it ?

That's probably the single most sensible post in this entire thread IMHO, well said.


No it isn't it is the most stupid thing ...

Class associaitons are not-for-profit "community" style organisations that operate for the collective benefit of all the owners of the boat, members & non-members indirectly.

They can only function because of the massive ammount of volunteer labour that is usually provided be a few keen owners.

If the wider community want so start behaving like consumers rather than members then they will find the whole sport will be considerably more expensive.

This same philosphy applies at sailing clubs too where they can only run for the cheap fees because of volunteers.

People need to get there heads round the fact that our sport is great because it functions like a members community where many people do stuff for free ... when those who usually do nothing start acting like grumpy consumers the house of cards start to fall and for sure everything will get more expensive.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1213141516 20>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy