Cirrus Icon Development

Originally posted by Guest#260 Having sailed the Tasar a few times recently I have been reminded what a pain that mast spanner is

Its just a question of getting it dialled in... In over rotating boats I grab the handle on the way through: it quite handy [sorry] for roll tacking.

Originally posted by Chris 249 none of the proponents of the Tasar II and similar proposals have been able to give us an example where is has succeeded in a large SMOD class.

On the other hand here in the UK there are plenty of examples of SMOD classes that have just disappeared off the face of the earth, which destroys value for the owner just as thoroughly...

In the case of the Tasar the proposals do seem to have reinvigorated the class association, and to my mind a really effective class association is about five times more important for class health than anything to do with the actual boat specification!

Edited by JimC

Originally posted by turnturtle Mike- are you in a position to indicate a target PY band for your initial recommended handicap? This sounds like a fantastic boat for club racing, especially if there's a definite bias in the skill/enthusiasm factors between the helm and primary crew (reluctant or fair weather wife/child!!!). However, a number of smaller clubs do have low limits on accepted PY levels. IIRC South Cerney cut off at 950-ish (RS400). It would be a shame to see this type of club cut out of the market, when in all likelihood, a sprightly non-kited double hander would be very well suited to the restricted waters and short leg RTC courses.

Are we seriously expecting all round performance of a 2-sail Icon to be faster than the RS400?

I can see it being quick upwind if the weight is kept down, and good in light weather, but downwind in average conditions will weigh on the PY. Not that this matters for fleet racing of course.

And 'national' PY's are of limited use in seriously crowded waters like small rivers anyway. So although it may keep up with a 400 on say the River Avon, an Enterprise would be a better PY reference perhaps. The Icon will be faster than an Ent, but the ratio should be more constant over varying conditions.

I would think the smaller venues that ban really fast boats are more concerned about flat- out -with the kite up speed than averages. After all the differences in average are pretty small. 10% is a huge difference in PY.

What Jim C says about the importance of class associations is so true. Lightning 368, same boat, new builder, revitalized and enthusiastic class association. Result, increasing popularity.

Merlin v Tasar .... similar ?

Most will testify that this would currently be a bit of a one sided contest.  They shared a similar PN for some time but now are slowly being separated officially.  On the water the gap is considerably wider imho and this perhaps reflects the 'lag' of PNs to reality in relation to some classes.

Icon will probabaly fall in there somewhere in the end.  My view is the hull is a tad more slippery than the Tasar and even after the new lines are reproduced in pre-production hulls it will still be very efficient and easily driven.  The key now is the rig development programme ... we always planned to fully test 2 radically different alternatives 1) An enlarged NS type rotating rig  2) A modern 'stick' type rig - The first option is now reasonably well understood and we are just starting work on the 'stick' alternative.  It is all interesting stuff !     There are powerful arguments for both - commercially the 'stick ' is easier to sell as most can understand what is going on immediately - in carbon it would also be cheaper of course. 

The 'wing' is technically less 'easy' for club sailors to read when they try the boat for the first time - maybe only because they have little or no experience with such rigs.  It can however deliver plenty of drive with a little less crew effort for a fixed sail area - but we are not bound to NS limitations.  If ICON was a development class however that allowed any mast type the fastest would be wing mast equipped ones as it is with the NS imho.

I'll post some more recent rig pics soon but we will probabaly keep the hull development and detailing under wraps for now as far as possible (it is always difficult anyway to keep rigs details restricted so we may as well be relatively open - especially given the dinghy community and mobile phone cameras !)

Mike L.

PS - We are still trying to find a carbon stick supplier who has some capacity to get involved sooner rather than later..... Selden are far too busy apparently and S/S  have long lead times currently albeit they have been very helpful to date - any suggestions out there or any 'niche' player who would like to look at some medium term production volume ?  Get in contact and I'll send a specification by return !  

Hi folks. 

I went to try out the latest development in the ICON rig today.  Snapped some photo's and shot a very short video. As you can see from the vid, it is pretty quick!

 The weather was glorious but the wind a little fickle.  It is a narrow diameter carbon stick (non rotating) with a bigger main. It is a semi-fully battned main, which is a lot easier to read than the fully battened one and still very lightly loaded on a 2:1 sheet.    The boat was very easy to sail and so smooth to sail.  The reduction in top weight from fewer battens and the lighter mast were quite noticable compared to my standard NS14 rig.  The extra sail area (and soft sail?) also made it significantly faster on a broad reach, and I have to admit, tacking is easier with a fixed mast.

It is still a development sail, so I believe the boom will be raised slightly, and the leech shortened to lift the outboard end (currently the boom droops a little).  It was also too flat in the head, but that's easily fixed.

I know I'm biased, but I believe this is going to turn out to be a very special boat indeed, and I can't wait to get mine!

Interesting comparison to 400 rig: