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Carbon or not Carbon

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    Posted: 28 May 10 at 12:44pm
Why carbon? Try righting an old 14 with an ali mast!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 1:35pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Dan Vincent

So unless tightly controlled (as in a SMOD such as... D1, Musto, RS800) expect change to carbon masts to be accompanied by costs not just increasing but multiplying.

Can you point to a non-Olympic class where that's happened?

505s; lead to them being banned and they still are ... which seems a shame to put a tin rig ona ful lcarbon hull.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 2:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 2:09pm
They reckoned that they would get that boat back racing in
3-4 days...Pretty fast I reckon.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 3:11pm
A bit of chocky spread and some gaffa tape, and it'll be fine
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 5:47pm

The vareo has the alloy bottom section with a fibreglass tip this is one boat that when it was tried went very well with a carbon mast and a new cut sail but most owners did not want it at the time some of those who complained the most no longer have vareos so perhaps its time to start thinking about it again.

I know one of the testing team said it went like a rocket downwind with the carbon rig and was alot quicker upwind

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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 8:32pm
Carbon benefited the Phantom. It has allowed a wider spectrum of weights to compete well bringing the low end of the weight band down to about 13 stone. Prior to that the ali rigs were very stiff and didn't allow the gust response that kept the lightweights out of the class. Personally it hasn't helped me as I frequent the higher weight ranges, but to be honest I do still like the gust response better than with my old superspar M7 scaffolding pole. As a general performance guide though I don't think it makes that much difference as I have finished 9th one year at the nats with tin and 10th the next with carbon.

The weight of the rig is beneficial, especially with stepping the mast. The epoxy hull with a tin rig (and sail raised) used to fall over like a RS300 at rest whereas with the carbon will sit in the water no probs.

I think though that carbon was also part of the "sexing up" of the class that has helped to its rejuvination. With dacron sails & tin rigs it looked a bit old fashioned, whereas now its bang up to date. The effect of pimping the boat should never be underestimated. I know its a bit vain but there it is, a lot of people are like that. Something had to get the people into the class, and before anyone mentions it, it wasn't because the boat was deemed to be a py bandit either. Carbon made an appearance on most of the polyester boats and therefore no one realised it until after all of the boats had carbon & plastic sails & the introduction of the epoxy hull.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spin cycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 10:25pm

carbon  and  aluminium  with  a  few  rivets  equals  very  short life  time  if  not properly  protected.  I  had  this issue  with a   14  racks    where  the  aluminium around the rivets  dissolved. 

Carbon  masts  are  great  and  for  one design  rigs  there  is  probably less difference  in  bend characteristics  than alloy masts.   ie  laser  sailors  prefer  top sections  from  new zealand rather than the  uk  a  few  years ago due  to the  aluminium it had  sourced.

AS  for  costs  for  olympic one designs masts  well blame  the   class association. 

The  cost  of  shirley  roberston's Sydney rig  was  far more than her  wing rig for   Alanta  as  they  had to   change the bend  characteristics  by    sanding  or adding carbon  on the  inside of the mast due  to  the mast  having set  external , section.   the old   rules  meant you  could   do all  this on the  outer section   far easier  and  a lot less  stresfull.

Me

I  have  just  pulled  a Carbon  based  rig (wood) out  for  a 40  year  old  mirror as my 3 year old  wants to go sailing!!

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 10 at 10:02am
My little Byte mast is a brilliant piece of engineering. It bends progressively into an even but  increasing curve. I presume that this is achieved by the type of weave and mix of fibers. However this mast is brand new, the chap who sold me the boat preferred to keep his original mast which bent off more at the top and has a finer weave , so he gave me the new one. Since he is a brilliant sailor and I am considerably less than that we are unable to make any performance comparison. However the "boy" borrowed my boat on a windy day recently and they scored one win each. The "boys" Lightning mast, alloy/carbon  seems very soft and bends all over the place but he still wins a lot. Perhaps we are being a bit pernickity. Good sailors can adapt their style to suit mast characteristics. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 10 at 10:20am
The lightning is an interesting case in point. When the Needlespar Ali mast was no longer available, the best way to get a mast where the bend matched was to go for a carbon top section. The bend characteristics are close enough that both dacron and mylar sails work on both masts equally well. Open meeting results show a mixture of mast types and sail cloth types, with no one thing dominating.
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