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Rule 42

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Strangler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule 42
    Posted: 05 May 10 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

Surely if the battens don't pop then you get no forward drive out of pumping anyway. The only opportunity to gain from it is on the singe occasion when they do finally pop, so I would think that there's not a problem in how mnay times it takes you to pop them.

Dont tell this pilot there's no forward drive when ya battens don't pop.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 5:58pm

Originally posted by Roy Race

Originally posted by Skiffman

They even tried getting rid of rule 42 in over 7 knots in the 49er like the finn, 470 etc. Would like to seem someone pump a 49er in over 7 knots
and make it go faster...


That's a good reason *to* switch off rule 42 in 49ers in over 7 knots, isn't it?
Why have a rule where none is needed?


Good point, but maybe that could also be extended to batten popping!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

They even tried getting rid of rule 42 in over 7 knots in the 49er like the finn, 470 etc. Would like to seem someone pump a 49er in over 7 knots
and make it go faster...


That's a good reason *to* switch off rule 42 in 49ers in over 7 knots, isn't it?
Why have a rule where none is needed?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 2:40pm

Perhaps there would be some merit in identifying those of us who have excessive problems getting their battens to behave and treating the problem at cause, whether it's batten stiffness/tension, rig set up, sail setting or whatever.

Whether it's in breach of RRS 42 or not, it's frustrating, distracting and does nothing for the image of a class.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 10:37am
Class rules may change rule 42 (see rule 86.1c) National authority prescriptions and sailing instructions may NOT change rule 42.

When class rules permit Appendix P5 "rules O and R" may apply. Note that P5a only permits class rules to allow pumping, rocking and ooching".

There is in effect a problem with Juries - often because classes do not insist on having qualified judges at enough events. Just like sailors, judges need time on the water, they need time on the water with other judge so that they can evolve a consistent interpretation. A problem can arise when a class only encounters qualified judges at one or two events per year. The judges do not kow the class, and the sailors do not know how rule 42 is being interpreted.

Onc again, the answer to most rules related problmes in a class - get qualified judges involved. Appointing a class judge for the season can work.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 10 at 3:26pm
I think the jury have wrote something into the 49er class rules to allow
you to pump again after a manoeuvre if the battens have not fully
popped. No one ever cared about you doing it but the jury did not like it
when they started judging medal races and everyone was popping the
battens if they had not gone!

Also most of rule 42 is down to doing something repeatedly, I am sure
that if you rolled and pumped the boat flat 3 or 4 times in a row and they
still did not pop you would be in trouble.

Most of the problem is that some juries do just not understand how to
sail the boats.

They even tried getting rid of rule 42 in over 7 knots in the 49er like the
finn, 470 etc. Would like to seem someone pump a 49er in over 7 knots
and make it go faster...
49er GBR5

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 10 at 11:34am
Some time ago I gave this interpretation of rule 42.

"he ISAF interpretations of rule 42 define a flick as the effect caused by body movement or pulling in or releasing a sail that is so abrupt that the normal shape of the sail is changed and almost immediately returned to the original shape.

When you agitate a sail to tack the top batten the sail is not returned to the original shape. Doing this once would not break rule 42.2(a). However if the action propels the boat with the effect of one stroke of a paddle you would be breaking rule 42.1"

I requested confirmation from a recognised rule 42 guru - my interpretation has been confirmed. It was also stated that there is a wish to write into the rules or interpretations a specific exception to rule 42 relating to popping battens and battens stuck on forestay.

In the meantime, if there is a specific and recurring issue in a class the reccomended procedure would be to write a question to the Jury/protest committee. They should then post on the official notice board an interpretation that thye should apply at the event. It sound somewhat bureaucratic, but may avoid problems.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:50pm

Gordon, Have PM'ed you

Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:06pm
1. if you try to initiate planing but fail you have not broken rule 42

2. Rest assured, any problme we cannot solve on htis forum will end up being discussed with the "appropriate authority" - who may be a member of the Racing Rules Committee.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:00pm

You are right Paul, it is all down to technique.  But if I have bad technique (And I obviously do), should I be penalised twice (Once for the bad tack/gybe and twice for the supposed pumping!)

Maybe I should be asking the RYA for clarification, so that it appears in the appeals folder, and we then have a definitive answer.

It does seem that rule 42 is rather woolly.  I always had an issue that you could pump a sail to initiate planing, so if you are crap at pumping and failed to initialise the plane, you could be protested!!!!

I obviously now found another flaw in that rule......

Do the RYA Rules Dept watch this forum? What is thier comment??.

Jon

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