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Little Monster View Drop Down
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Posts: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Little Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule 42
    Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 11:22pm

Jon

As I understand it you can make further attempts to pop the batten through but would suggest that if you were to do it every tack or tack every 10 meters or so then you are guilty under Rule 42. 

We had a big lecture from the PRO before an event last year and whilst not getting a definative answer the inferance we all took was that as long as we were not gaining an advantage it was ok. 

Being, largely, a self policing sport its up to you to judge if you are getting an unfair advantage and your competition to challenge you if they think you are.

Try a bit more kicker before the tack to stretch the leach

Or get something without racks.....

Cheers



Edited by Little Monster
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Jon711

Unless I hear something to the contrary, I will have to retire...

I think that would be an immense over-reaction. If you really feel guilty about it then get someone to protest you, then take it to appeal so we can all get some clarification.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Jon711

Just checked the rules, and the appeals, there is no
case relating to popping battens.   But I feel I may have been sailing
illegaly as I was, in effect pumping.


 


Unless I hear something to the contrary, I will have to
retire...



You're kidding right? So are you really going to retire every light wind
race that you have trouble popping your battens??
I really wouldn't worry about it. You're gaining no advantage and i'm sure
everyone who sees you struggling with your sail is going to sympathize
rather than protest you.
Anyone who considers that cheating is taking the rules waaayyyyyy too
far.

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 10:25pm
As I have always been lead to understood it, you are allowed a single 'pump' to pop batterns after each tack or gybe.  Which would stand to reason, in that anything you would gain from it you would have already lost in them not going on your way out of the manoevuer, if you are able to sail so well that you can actually make a noticeable gain out of tacking or gybing without popping the batterns first time and then getting drive by doing them afterwards then fair play, you are a far better sailor than anyone else will ever be .  Best off working on a way in which they go as you come out of the corner first time and save the argument.  That said there is specific reference to people tacking repetedly for no tactical reason as a way of trying to legitimise pumping, this is illegal under Rule 42 and I have seen people DSQ'd for this. 
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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 8:57pm

Just checked the rules, and the appeals, there is no case relating to popping battens.   But I feel I may have been sailing illegaly as I was, in effect pumping.

 

Unless I hear something to the contrary, I will have to retire...
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 8:18pm
Surely popping battens is a seamanlike manoeuver? The intent isn't to go forwards, and the majority of the time the increase in speed will be due to the sail being the right shape again. If you do a huge roll and pop the battens on the way up, and the boat shoots forwards in a very light wind, that is cheating. If you tack and the battens need to be yanked across, that isn't. Bit like you are allowed to scull a boat round a mark (turning using repeated movements is allowed, I believe) but not to make forward motion. They blur together in the middle ground, and a decision has to me made on an individual basis.
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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 7:06pm

Originally posted by JimC

IIRC there was some trouble with on the water judging at a 14 worlds not very many years ago where judges wanted to penalise boats for desperately trying to get battens across, so technically there could be a rules problem. You'd have to be a sad ******* to protest anyone for it though!

But, you know. as I know, it will happen.  Maybe I should wait until I get protested, and appeal.

I would suggest that the Racing Rules were adapted to allow top batten popping..(assuming it's illegal already!!)

Jon



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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 3:57pm

Simplest way to do it is to apply some downhaul (cunningham) to make them top over and then let it back off to current setting.

Or; spend the day in the bar.

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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 12:41pm

Originally posted by maxibuddah

I've no doubt that its all down to technique but just every now and again a lously tack or gybe means it can happen.

And that is exactly my point, most times I can get them to pop, but, if I do a bad tack or gybe, and they don't pop should I then be penalised under rule 42??

It would be really nice if there was an RYA or ISAF umpire on this forum, who would be prepared to give an opinion...
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 8:08am
I've no doubt that its all down to technique but just every now and again a lously tack or gybe means it can happen.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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