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Jon711 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Apr 10 at 7:58pm

As you may know I sail a Blaze, when sailing in zero or near zero wind I can not always pop the battens, when tacking or gybing.  If I tack, with as much roll as the wings allow me, and the battens don't pop, is it illegal to hit the leeward rail and grab the mainsheet falls to allow me to pop the battens.  As I read rule 42.1 it says (the crew) shall not otherwise move thier bodies to propel the boat.  I am not trying to get an advantage, just trying to not get a disadvantage.  So I think I am legal, but others may think different.  What do you think????

Jon

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Sorry just realised I posted in the wrong section, but I may get maore answers here. Mark/Mags any chance of moving this to the rules section?



Edited by Jon711
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 10 at 9:13pm
Jon

There is something wrong if the battens don't go across easily - do you have the right ones in the sail ? 

Mike L.
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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 10 at 9:16pm

Mike, I'm talking of silly weather, when it is so light that my fag smoke is vertical (and in those conditions the best windex is cigarette smoke!).  I do have the right battens (At least I hope I do, you sold them to me!!!!).  Just not sure on the legal position!!

 

Jon



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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 10 at 10:39pm
I'd like to know the actual legal position on this too, cos any boat with at least a full to batten can suffer the same problem. I guess that you would get away with so long as you impart no forward speed on the boat. This is my thoughts though, so I would like to know the real answer
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JimC View Drop Down
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IIRC there was some trouble with on the water judging at a 14 worlds not very many years ago where judges wanted to penalise boats for desperately trying to get battens across, so technically there could be a rules problem. You'd have to be a sad ******* to protest anyone for it though!

There is a timing trick to this - a perfectly timed tug on the mainsheet as the rig comes across will make almost any battens tack... I remember borrowing a notoriously over-talented Cherub helms' boat for a trip round the bay, and being completely unable to get battens to tack he never seemed to have any problems with...

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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 8:08am
I've no doubt that its all down to technique but just every now and again a lously tack or gybe means it can happen.
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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 12:41pm

Originally posted by maxibuddah

I've no doubt that its all down to technique but just every now and again a lously tack or gybe means it can happen.

And that is exactly my point, most times I can get them to pop, but, if I do a bad tack or gybe, and they don't pop should I then be penalised under rule 42??

It would be really nice if there was an RYA or ISAF umpire on this forum, who would be prepared to give an opinion...
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 3:57pm

Simplest way to do it is to apply some downhaul (cunningham) to make them top over and then let it back off to current setting.

Or; spend the day in the bar.

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Jon711 View Drop Down
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Posts: 465 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 7:06pm

Originally posted by JimC

IIRC there was some trouble with on the water judging at a 14 worlds not very many years ago where judges wanted to penalise boats for desperately trying to get battens across, so technically there could be a rules problem. You'd have to be a sad ******* to protest anyone for it though!

But, you know. as I know, it will happen.  Maybe I should wait until I get protested, and appeal.

I would suggest that the Racing Rules were adapted to allow top batten popping..(assuming it's illegal already!!)

Jon



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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 10 at 8:18pm
Surely popping battens is a seamanlike manoeuver? The intent isn't to go forwards, and the majority of the time the increase in speed will be due to the sail being the right shape again. If you do a huge roll and pop the battens on the way up, and the boat shoots forwards in a very light wind, that is cheating. If you tack and the battens need to be yanked across, that isn't. Bit like you are allowed to scull a boat round a mark (turning using repeated movements is allowed, I believe) but not to make forward motion. They blur together in the middle ground, and a decision has to me made on an individual basis.
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